#25 Can Mindset Be Your Secret Weapon: Learn the power of "...Yet"

Speaker 1: 0:02

Welcome. I'm Dr Moose Herring, Orthopedic Sports Medicine Specialist.

Speaker 2: 0:06

I'm Dr Rob Green, Sports Chiropractor, Coach, Trustee Sidekick. We are Lifetime Endurance Athletes. We are Eager Lab Rats.

Speaker 1: 0:13

We are Maker of Many Mistakes. We are Family-focused sports medicine docs that are balancing family work and fitness and are enjoying the ride While we are sports medicine professionals. This podcast is not part of our professional responsibilities. No doctor, patient or coach-athlete relationship developed this podcast. We have no financial support from any outside resources. The only support we get is from our fantastic wives that sit back and look at us in complete dismay.

Speaker 2: 0:42

Welcome to HubLife. Enjoy the show. Hublife welcome back.

Speaker 1: 0:49

How you doing Moose Wintertime Dark when you go to work, Dark when you come home. I need some vitamin D.

Speaker 2: 0:55

You know, that's spot on Now that we say we're going to be covering mindset today and I think I'm going to need to work on my mindset when it because it feels like work camp you wake up in dark, get home in dark.

Speaker 1: 1:06

And then that's what we do every year, and my wife is shocked that it's dark at five o'clock.

Speaker 2: 1:10

I'm like every year that's where we live, but it doesn't get easier. Wouldn't you think it'd get easier?

Speaker 1: 1:14

No, it's hard.

Speaker 2: 1:16

Oh man, christmas time, you getting Christmas shopping. You guys got much to do. We have a lot to do.

Speaker 1: 1:21

But you know, my job is cyclical in nature and I think I'm busier this time of year than freaking Santa Claus. Yeah, Just everybody wants to have their stuff done because they're deductible and enough time of the day. Oh my gosh man.

Speaker 2: 1:36

This is case after case, after case after case.

Speaker 1: 1:39

I have great crew, my MAs are fantastic, my new PA is fantastic, but man, oh man.

Speaker 2: 1:45

So every year it's like that for you. But every time I think about it I was like this is the biggest and longest endurance event that you're going to do and go through it. And then I asked are you yelling for Coke Gatorade in between?

Speaker 1: 1:56

cases. It's weird because I'm expecting, like an aid station halfway through.

Speaker 2: 2:03

Yeah, maybe an IV after it's all over. You've got to be inflated back up. Yeah, oh my gosh, we're blessed with one. It's just hard, but it's you know, it's every.

Speaker 1: 2:15

I'm always shocked and I'm shocked that I'm shocked because it's the same thing, every year yeah.

Speaker 2: 2:20

Yeah, but it doesn't make it easier, man, you go in and you know and it's not going to be super easy, but grateful for being able to have the work to do and it's amazing thing is is in our winter season where we do I do a little less time training, right. Yeah.

Speaker 1: 2:37

But that, that, that, that, that that allows my work life to be longer, yeah, Right, if this workload was in the spring and summer, when I was trying to get ready for races and stuff, yeah we'll do, it Wouldn't be possible.

Speaker 2: 2:50

Yeah, what do you do? Are you up super early in the morning now? Is that what you do? What time's your day start?

Speaker 1: 2:57

It depends, but it's not unusual for me to get a 90 minute brick in on Tuesdays and Thursdays.

Speaker 2: 3:04

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 3:04

And leave the house by seven.

Speaker 2: 3:07

A leave for work by seven. That's some fancy math. So what like? How much time, how, how long is transition Like? Does that mean, are you up at four, I get?

Speaker 1: 3:16

up at four, sometimes Four, yeah, and I used to have a role I didn't get up before four.

Speaker 2: 3:22

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 3:22

But if I need to, because I had meeting and that kind, of stuff. So yeah, it made it, but I leave for work at seven.

Speaker 2: 3:28

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 3:29

Then on Mondays and Wednesdays and Fridays I hopefully get something in the afternoon. Yeah.

Speaker 2: 3:33

That's awesome.

Speaker 1: 3:34

And the major current event, and you're not. You're going to be a little bit jealous of this. I ran trails today for the first time since I got hurt.

Speaker 2: 3:43

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 3:44

It was freaking glorious Rainy wet slick, but majestic man so fun. Foggy on the river and you know we're truly lucky to have the James River Trail Systems. Yeah, Just to be out there is fantastic.

Speaker 2: 3:58

Yeah, it is majestic out there and for those of you that don't know, and we, the reason we're so lucky is it's these urban trails that are just around James River and they're beautiful. But the thing I find so fascinating is, you know, as storm will come through and you'll see a big tree down across the trail and it might be in some obscure part of the trail system, within a week it is cleared up and out. I mean, the people that take care of that trail system are just Do amazing, incredible.

Speaker 1: 4:25

And it's mainly mountain bikers, I think, because they do a fantastic job. But just to have that, it's a 15 minute drive from my house and you can run hours and hours on trails.

Speaker 2: 4:36

It's so nice, it's our favorite time of the year. Last podcast, man, I gotta tell you I really like what we are able to accomplish. It's without ever talking about it, it's the way we've always approached our year. But I actually have a conversation about it and just to get the idea of it not being so binary between in season and off season, to think about the different periods that you go through and the seasonal training, if you will, and because my favorite training is this time of year when we are out in the trails. It's beautiful, it's great for the soul, it's great, it's great stability training. It is great, it's easier on the body. We come out of winter running the best all year long because we are consistently training out there and it's perfect for our clean, clear season training as opposed to quote unquote off season. But, man, if you have anything that you can do different or any sort of trail system or you'll get with groups and do something different, but it's truly like you said, it's the best time of the year to go training.

Speaker 1: 5:40

I agree with you. We had a conversation last week about off season or winter season. I had to giggle some this week with some of the sessions I was doing. They think about how high my heart rate was at being off season.

Speaker 2: 5:54

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So yeah, forget that word off. We realize that that word off isn't good for moose when it's not season?

Speaker 1: 6:00

yeah, no, it's not.

Speaker 2: 6:00

Yeah, yeah. That's why we, with a lot of times on our recovery days, we call for aggressive rest. Right, because as athletes, we're kind of like oh, no, no, no, no. Rest is a four letter word. Be like aggressive rest, man. I need you to aggressively recover like a rock star. So, current events Mary Beth, my wife sent us a fantastic current event today which I thought was hilarious. Did you see the link she sent with Taylor Swift? Saw a little bit of it? Yeah, so Taylor Swift, who obviously now, with Travis Kelsey and everything like that, is getting so much put. Well, I'm good Lord, she already got all the publicity in the world, but it was an article that before the Ares tour that she's out and she sings and her concerts are incredible, three plus hours long and she is just like full on. So she would run on a treadmill for three hours in preparation singing her songs. So not only does she have to be on the treadmill running, but she would be singing. Can you imagine running a marathon trying to sing a song?

Speaker 2: 6:57

I think she got to walk a little bit during some of the slow songs, but in preparation, which makes so much sense because I mean endurance athlete, she is out there like full tilt, but you got to be able to sing at the same time too, and that's what she did for training on the treadmill, singing for three hours when she jumped off and changed clothes and jumped back back on.

Speaker 1: 7:19

didn't she have like 14 or some ridiculous number of costume changes?

Speaker 2: 7:23

I think so, man. I think they've got that down, like Superman's going into the photo booth or phone booth and coming out in a totally different outfit.

Speaker 1: 7:31

That's amazing.

Speaker 2: 7:31

So yeah, I just couldn't imagine, as I read that I was just thinking about the times that we're training and actually having to sing while you're doing that.

Speaker 1: 7:40

Three hours on the treadmill yeah, that's a long time.

Speaker 2: 7:43

Very long time, especially imagine beautiful songs, though.

Speaker 1: 7:46

Yeah, but you're singing to yourself Whenever you ever get tired of hearing your own voice. Yeah.

Speaker 2: 7:52

Well, probably we'd go on our trails and like somebody would talk too much, and then that's when we knew the pace would go up. Somebody was talking too much, the pace went up. It's called talk threshold, talk threshold. Yeah, I feel like if somebody came to our training run, it was early in the morning and they were really gabby and just back of my head I was like, oh man, it's going to be a harder run than I anticipated.

Speaker 1: 8:12

And the only person we were never able to get out of that was Eric Klintman. Eric Klintman, professional triathlete. That dude could gab at 645 pace on the trail and he could still talk for two and a half hours, yeah.

Speaker 2: 8:24

He was in like low zone too. He was amazing yeah.

Speaker 1: 8:26

Truly amazing.

Speaker 2: 8:28

So a side thing off topic that I came across, there is a I think we've both talked about. Have you listened to Mel Robbins podcast before? I think it's exceptional, great podcast. But the number six downloaded podcast episode in the world was her let them podcast. So you had sent that to me a while back. Let them theory, and that was the number six overall podcast, which I thought would be kind of cool for our listeners that listen. If you don't know Mel Robbins, look it up. And then look up that let them podcast. And I thought that was, I mean, in our type A personality that we are. We are very in control of a lot of the things that are important to us and it was. It was also letting go a little bit that led them theory. So I thought that was a really cool thing. I couldn't believe it. So, number six I mean imagine having to keep all time of all year and so and that was the one that you had sent and that's I had never heard of her until you sent that to me and I listened to a decent amount of her stuff. But yeah, let them. So check out that podcast. I thought that was pretty cool. Anything else? That's it Winter time, man, merry Christmas, winter season, all right.

Speaker 2: 9:42

So today's main topic we wanted to get into is mindset. Right, I think it was. I think it was you who had recommended the book mindset by Carol Dweck, which I thought was fantastic and what a game changer that was. So I had gotten the book and read through it and I know you were very passionate about what a game changer that is. And so I thought for today's podcast, if we dive into mindset this idea of growth mindset or fixed mindset and define some things that it might be a great thing to share with everybody and have a little bit of a perspective and get an idea of where you might land on it and we're not all one way or another, but we can have an awareness of how we approach certain situations. So what do you think of when I think of, when saying mindset moves? Were you excited to talk about this?

Speaker 1: 10:35

Yeah, sure. So I think it's one of the most crucial aspects we have in our day to day success and our endurance, as we race, as we train and just as we try to survive day to day. I think you can control a lot of what you're doing with your quote mindset yeah, I think mindset is what you bring to the table every day mentally, physically, emotionally, spiritually. It's what you have that encompasses everything.

Speaker 2: 11:08

Yeah, when you send that to me, because I think one of our strengths is our mindset. That's why I love being around you and being around our training buddies. I think we all have really strong mindsets and so when you had sent that, I was like, oh man, why would that be such a game changer for you? Because I think that that's a strength. Let's look into it and what I had gotten from it personally was, in many ways, we have a really good and great strong growth mindset and we'll talk about what these are here in a second. But I also found that in many ways I had this fixed mindset. I think in certain situations I had a bit of a fixed mindset that I never thought about until diving into that.

Speaker 2: 11:52

So, as we look at this, there's two main mindsets and to look at and we're going to call one a fixed mindset and one a growth mindset. In a fixed mindset, someone who believes their abilities, their intelligence and talents, their fixed traits, they see them as inherent and unchangeable. It is what it is. We're born like that. Whereas somebody with a growth mindset is going to believe that their intelligence, that their abilities, can be developed through dedication, through hard work, through learning, through perseverance, they see potential for improvement over time.

Speaker 2: 12:30

And so two distinct mindsets that we look at. And here's what I found fascinating is, even though you may be really growth mindset in certain ways, I think if you look and you are honest with yourself, I think you might see opportunities for a growth mindset in others. Right, it's not all one or the other and you may look at it and think about yourself. You may look at it and see some other people, but I just thought it was fascinating on how it's not this sort of all in or all out, it's all one way or it's all another way.

Speaker 1: 13:03

And they've done great research on younger kids, looking at which kids have fixed mindsets and which kids have growth mindsets.

Speaker 1: 13:10

I think the age was 10 to 12, this Dr Dweck you know she worked with and she was showing those kids with a fixed mindset. They believed they had a certain amount of ability. They couldn't really change that ability and they went at each task with, with and they tried hard but they only had were we able to certain if they did not get an A, they basically saw it as failure. Right, those kids with a growth mindset, they thought those tasks were good challenges. They thought those tasks made them better because it questioned their ability to do well, it questioned their ability to be able to be perfect. So I think it's fantastic.

Speaker 2: 13:58

Yeah. So my daughter's third grade I gotta remember now because they're growing so fast third grade teacher, we went to the back to school night. I was man. I left that that back to school night where he met with the students and I was inspired. Right, I was inspired. I was excited to go back to work the next day because I was like, oh man, but he had it all over his classroom the difference of a fixed mindset and a growth mindset. So much so I sent him an email afterwards.

Speaker 2: 14:23

I was like man, we are passionate about Carol Dweck's work and to see it in the classroom and teaching the kids without them totally knowing I mean, it was, it was, it was right. There. I mean fixed mindset. I'm not good at this growth. I can get good with effort and practice. Right, this is too hard, says the fixed mindset. Everything is hard before it's easy. And he's teaching the kids and there's a list of more of them.

Speaker 2: 14:51

But I just thought it was so beautiful of getting it in front of these kids, like you said it's. I mean it's while there's neuroplasticity and you're learning to think and getting in front of kids while they're young and moldable and Holland is my youngest and she's in that classroom and just loves Mr DeMay and it's because, man, it's, it's, it's so good for you, it's so good for the soul you live. With this sort of growth mindset A lot of a lot of positives happen, as opposed to the negative Nancy's of the fixed mindset. So I thought that was yeah. Big shout out to Mr DeMay and all the teachers out there using this.

Speaker 1: 15:27

Yeah. So another thing about fixed mindset is these young kids, and probably us as well we tend to avoid challenges. We're scared of failure. We were worried how failure is looked at, instead of looking at these hard challenges as a chance to grow and a chance to really enjoy the journey.

Speaker 2: 15:52

Totally man. So, if we look at it, there's. So we've covered the belief with the mindset, with the fixed mindset and the growth mindset, and then we look at we're going to look at challenges, we're going to look at view of effort, we're going to look to what's your response to setbacks and then what's your response to feedback. And so we understand now what the difference is between fixed mindset and growth mindset. Well, how about when we face those challenges? Right, what does a fixed mindset do when we face a challenge? They tend to avoid challenges or tasks that they perceive as difficult or that they may reveal their own shortcomings. Right, they're afraid of them. They may fear failure because it could be seen as a reflection of their inherent lack of ability. Usually scares the crap out of them, right, as opposed to a growth mindset. When they face a challenge, right, they embrace the challenge as an opportunity for learning and growth. They see the challenges as a way to develop their skills, expand their capabilities, get yourself out of your comfort zone. That's where growth happens. Whereas now, if we look at the fixed mindset, as they look at effort, right, effort is often seen as a fruitless, seen as fruitless in a fixed mindset. Individuals may believe that if they have to work hard for something, it means they lack the natural talent and success should come effortlessly. As opposed to a growth mindset, the effort is seen as a path, seen as a path of mastery. In a growth mindset, you have to be able to give that effort. Individuals understand that the consistent effort and hard work contribute to their improvement and their skill development.

Speaker 2: 17:23

How about when we get to a setback? Right, what does a fixed mindset do? They interpret it as a direct reflection of one's ability. Individuals may be more likely to give up in the face of adversity, having a fixed mindset, feeling that they're not capable of improvement. Right, they're fixed, they're stuck. How many people do you know that are stuck like that? As opposed to somebody in a growth mindset, they view a setback as a temporary and as a natural part of that learning process. Right, people with a growth mindset are more likely to bounce back from failures, using them as an opportunity to learn and to adapt.

Speaker 2: 17:56

But how about now? Feedback? What if you give somebody in feedback and they've got a fixed mindset? Right? They're less receptive to the constructive criticism. They see it as feedback, as a judgment on their inherent abilities, rather than opportunity for growth. They oftentimes seem quite a bit more defensive. Right.

Speaker 2: 18:12

How does a growth mindset? You're open to feedback, you see it as valuable information and input for improvement and understand that it does not define your worth but rather helps guide your development. And those are some of the core overviews. So, as we go over that and the difference between a fixed mindset and a growth mindset and different situations, whether you're in your core belief or what do you do when you have challenges and what do you look at when you put effort in? Or what's your response to setback, or even what's your response to feedback and how does that play for us in endurance sports? How does it play for us in life? And as you reflect on it, like, how do you respond to certain situations?

Speaker 2: 18:52

And I don't know about you, moose, but every time I think about all kinds of different races, I can pick different examples of a growth mindset and I can pick different examples of a fixed mindset. Right, and usually you can re and again with the growth mindset. I can go back to some of those setbacks and realize that you know what? I could have been a little bit better, I could have had a better mindset going into it. So I thought it'd be fun if we had a dialogue about some of those, maybe share some examples, share some times where we had a fixed mindset, where we could have improved that growth mindset, to share times when we had a growth mindset that helped us tremendously. We hope that stimulates maybe you sharing your experiences with us as well. So I think there's so many different places to go with this I sort of don't know where to start. But I'll drop the ball to you, man, after kind of covering those, where do we take it from here?

Speaker 1: 19:43

Well, I think we're all good, good, good, guilty in the endurance community of having a fixed mindset at some point, right. I think all of us not all of us, but most of us set high goals and that's what gets us out of bed at 4AM, that's what makes us do what we do right, and we get so fixed on those goals. That's a fixed mindset. And you may not achieve those goals and that tends to either make you say, okay, I'm done, I can't do it because I just don't have the ability to do it, or you can say I'm still working toward that goal. And I think one thing that those of us who have raced our Ironman and had the blessing and good luck to go to Kona is Kona to me is a fixed mindset. It's a fixed mindset because we sit down in November say this year I'm going to go to Kona, I have to have a qualifying race, I'm going to go to Kona. That's my mindset.

Speaker 1: 20:47

Well, you go to your first qualifying Ironman race. You could have a perfect day, you could have a PR by 10 minutes, everything could go right, but eight other people in your age group could show up who are better athletes. Your fixed mindset said you're a failure. But your growth mindset said I had a fantastic day and I improved on my swim, I improved on my run, my nutrition was good and I had a great day. So it helps you accept your great day without having a fixed mindset saying well, I'm a pissed off because I didn't make a qualifying standard.

Speaker 2: 21:27

You know it's funny, you say that because I agree with you, but I also disagree with you, and I'll push back a little bit. Because what was it like back in those days when we were trying to like especially even the first time qualify for Kona? I think we would call each other out on that and we'd almost not want to say it out loud because if you looked at it, it wasn't actually an objective goal. Right, you wanted to get there but, like you said, that didn't tell you whether you had a good day or bad day. That's a goal that doesn't say I had a good race that day. Like you said, you can have a great race and not make it. And you have a race that didn't go perfectly but also still make it.

Speaker 2: 22:00

So we used to call each other out on that quite a bit and be like, hey, that's not an actual goal, right? What do you want to be able to swim? What do you want to be able to bike? What do you want to be able to run? What are your goals for that? What's your plan for the race that leads to a really nice outcome, and if that outcome is good enough for you to be able to go to the promise land that will on the face of the surface of the sun, then lucky you. So we used to call each other out on that quite a bit, even though, yes, I think we were fixated on doing the right things to get there. But we also tried to make sure that it was that sort of process driven outcome, because and we know people who are so fixed minded on that one goal that, like it becomes a house of cards when they're in the race and they know that they've got, like, very little room for any sort of error and, as we know, with Ironman, that day there is going to be all kinds of things thrown at you that don't go perfectly. And how do you adapt to it? In fact, that's why I love the darn sport. Nothing's guaranteed to you.

Speaker 2: 23:00

But I've known several athletes that throw their toys out of the cop because when something happened they had a mechanical on their bike and that was the end of the world. Because, well, I can't afford to have this, because I've got to get to Conan. Rather than figuring out what can I do to help maybe fix the problem, mitigate any of the time loss, and then get back to it and stay in my game and I've fallen to where I may be overbite because I thought I needed to do something instead of doing the right thing. So there's times where we were fixed minded with that.

Speaker 2: 23:32

But I would say that I think we kept each other pretty well challenged on keeping a growth mindset for it, because it was a passion and you've got to have that passion to get. You've got to have a big, scary goal. You've got to be able to kind of challenge yourself that way. But there's one thing that I think you've always led by example with is that resiliency and that adaptability to challenging situations. So I would say that, while we've had times of fixed mindset, I think during that build up and during that process, there was a lot of good accountability through us as training partners, right, but I think that there also is a sense if you have set that goal of qualifying, you walk away from that race and you've not qualified.

Speaker 1: 24:17

There is a bit of sense of despair or unhappiness, right yeah.

Speaker 2: 24:23

You worked hard, let me work hard. But so then you got a choice at that point. Right, you got a choice at that point. You've gotten to that point, and how many times have we and this is a cool thing about, I mean, this transcends sport, and that's what I love about triathlete and all transcends it. But this applies to your the hub way, right, family right, your relationships, parenting, parenting. It applies to work, right?

Speaker 2: 24:44

How do you respond to a setback and we both have been there and what are you going to do and what do you do it? And how do you respond in sport? So I think the mindset is incredibly important. So, yeah, let's say you get to that point. It's okay to feel like that. In fact, I would tell you to not fight it. I think when people fight it, I think that's even unhealthier to have a little bit of that pity party afterwards. But then what's your response to it? Right, is your response growth, mindset. Did I learn something from this or did I just see myself as not good enough? I mean, how many times do we see athletes that define their self worth by their outcome.

Speaker 2: 25:20

Right, or their self worth by did I make it or did I make it? If I made it, I'm great, if I didn't make it, I'm bad. Right, and that's a fixed mindset, right? That's, I think, one of the secrets. And if we're going to give any tips and maybe we do that a little bit later I think one of the secrets I have, or a little bit of tip that works for me, is I laugh about stuff, right. So, if you can, there was a time when we did court of lane and we all had really good results and we ended up not making it. You just sort of laugh, you're like I don't think that's all I got, man, that's all I got, that's all I could do, right? I don't know how to describe that pity party.

Speaker 2: 25:50

But now you've got a choice and to articulate what that choice is, your choice is do you want to have a growth mindset or do you want to have a fixed mindset? A lot of times people's software. If you're lucky enough, when you're a kid and you're around parents or other people that helped you develop that without even knowing it Right, as an adult, maybe you realize that. Gosh, I never thought about that. I approach a lot of things with a fixed mindset. You've got a choice and as adults, you get to choose your pathway. So yeah, we've had races like that and they didn't go well. But what's your choice? What do you want to do afterwards? Do you want to have a fixed mindset? Do you want to have a growth mindset?

Speaker 1: 26:31

I also think endurance stuff, other things that are important in fixed mindset and growth mindset. Are we set goals every year? Are you willing to set big, scary goals where you may fail? That's a growth mindset. So if you're going to set goals that are going to change what you do, challenge your system, knowing there's 50, 50, 30, 70, you're going to fail but you're going to be better in the process. That's going to make you a better person.

Speaker 2: 27:05

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 27:06

Or if you have a fixed mindset, you're less likely to set scary goals. You're going to set goals that you know you can reach, because you don't want that sense of failure.

Speaker 2: 27:13

Yeah, right.

Speaker 1: 27:14

So setting the goals is one thing and then, as you work toward those goals, there's we all have ups and downs in working those goals. You're your fixed mindset set. As you work toward those goals, you say, see, I told you I couldn't do it, or I'm only going to allow myself to do what I think I can do.

Speaker 2: 27:33

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 27:33

Growth mindset is going to allow you to get out of your box and maybe do a little bit more and challenge yourself along the way.

Speaker 2: 27:40

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 27:41

Doing what you do, yeah. And then likewise, if you're a fixed mindset, the first time something goes wrong, the first time your goggles get filled up with the water, first time you have a flat tire, the first time you have to stop at the you know, poor John, because you got some GIs you're going to say, see, I told you, I couldn't.

Speaker 1: 27:59

Yeah, but. But a growth mindset is going to allow you to evaluate that, maybe get back in the rhythm and get back in the race. Or, after the race, laugh about it and say, well, maybe I shouldn't try 12 goos on the bike, yeah, yeah. So that's that to me. I think in the endurance world, in setting goals, preparation for those goals and racing, there's a true difference in my mind, in a fixed mindset and a growth mindset.

Speaker 2: 28:25

Yeah, yeah. And is it a conscious choice for you? It?

Speaker 1: 28:28

has to be. Yeah, and it's. It's more so now because my mindset is just just trying to be the best me I can be every day. Yeah, right, it is less. I have to go out and run for an hour at 730 pace. Yeah, it's, I'm going to, I'm going to go out and I'm going to run for an hour and then I'm going to do the best I can. And today, maybe that day, it may, it may not be.

Speaker 2: 28:49

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 28:49

But if I'm subject to me, objectively making myself a better person, that's a that's a good thing. Yeah, and this, this injury thing you know we talked about on the show before, but I, I, I, I, I, I tore my calf six weeks ago. To today, a fixed mindset would be like well, that's it, I'm done Right, so I'm going to shut things down. I'm not going to do anything, I'm just going to sell the couch, right? A growth mindset is okay. I'm hurt. How can I keep some fitness? How can I make goals? How can I advance my run, walk to the point where I, you know, when I am better, I can run.

Speaker 2: 29:31

Yeah, yeah, mind sets everything, everything, and I think that's what I'm talking about clinically, about those with the growth mindset get better, faster, actually, too, as opposed to the ones with the fixed mindset, who really struggle.

Speaker 1: 29:44

So folks with a growth mindset, I understand and appreciate the process.

Speaker 2: 29:49

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 29:51

They can deal with rehab, the early phase of rehab. They're not doing very much and as they progress, progress they can't. The fixed mindset people have a hard time looking at not being able to play sports for eight months after they tear their ACL yeah Right. But a growth mindset can look at it. Well, this month I'm gonna challenge myself to do a four month plank. Next month I'm gonna challenge myself to swim. So there's some things you can do. A growth mindset by saying how can I make myself better day to day, week to week, month to month, and I think that's everything? Yeah, totally.

Speaker 2: 30:24

And those are the big things too, and it's just the little. It's. I mean, it's even rooted in the little things on the day, right, if you're training right, and that session didn't go the way you thought it was gonna go, and that's just the way training those of you that train know that right. But I know a lot of athletes that maybe struggle with that one workout that they were supposed to hit at a certain pace and I was supposed to feel a certain way and it didn't, and therefore they'll panic train because then they think that they've lost all their, they've got this fixed mindset that it's gotta be a certain way Because they've earned it, because it's supposed to be this, I scheduled this and I put the input and the output's supposed to be the same and it's just not the way the world works. And much of what we see in that growth mindset is that you know it's named the growth mindset because that's where the most growth I think happens in some of those times, so you can get paper cut to death in life. It's not even just the big things where they sort of get you. Certainly, those big watershed moments in your life are really important to keep a growth mindset. But it's the chronic small things I think get to people, whether it's training and they think it's gotta go a certain way, or whether, you know, I went to work today and it was supposed to be a certain outcome, or I think I was supposed to do one specific thing and everything's supposed to go my way because I earned it. And you find those people really struggle right. They just really really struggle. There's been times I've fallen victim to that. You know, I've worked so hard, I did a certain thing and you expect a certain outcome and you're like but why? Because crap happens right. That's why, and the more you realize that crap happens, the more that you adopt that growth mindset and you reflect and you learn from the things that life has thrown you, the better you become and the smarter you become and the more savvy you become. Because you have this growth mindset.

Speaker 2: 32:09

And, like you said you said it without even hesitating Is it a conscious choice? Absolutely right, it's, you know. And if you make it a conscious choice so much, it starts to become your subconscious choice by default. And if you look around, I mean, maybe you find you've got a great growth mindset in a certain avenue, but you gotta fix mindset in another avenue. That's what I found fascinating when I read the book.

Speaker 2: 32:32

As much as I was like man, mindset's a strength. If that's like a, it's a moose superpower. Right, a moose superpower is mindset to me. Why would he send me this book and say that this was a game changer for me? I was like, oh, cause, we're so fixed in certain ways. Right, there's some certain things and there can be maybe a sense of positive a little bit. You're fixed at getting up at four in the morning, so that's pretty impressive. But you're also adaptable when you know when things go sideways or there's like a little bit of curveball. So I think it's not only like it's not only the big watershed moments, but it's just the little day-to-day things that I think make the biggest difference.

Speaker 1: 33:08

There's a Ted Talk by Carol DeWeck. This is off of this book and sometimes growth mindset and you know it can be confusing to a fixed mindset. But in her Ted Talk she makes it, makes it very easy. And there's one word that she says over and over and over and over. That makes it easy and the word is yet. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's a powerful word, that's a crazy powerful word Because she uses yet in her growth mindset as a powerful word.

Speaker 2: 33:44

Because, she's.

Speaker 1: 33:45

You know, I haven't run a 38 minute 10K yet. I haven't qualified for Kona yet. I haven't had a year of that injury yet, right. And instead of I can only run 41 minutes for 10K. All right, I can only go 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 5 for an Ironman, right? So if you use the word yet and you enjoy the process, that's a growth mindset. It makes it easy.

Speaker 2: 34:14

It does Makes it easy. Yeah, so it's funny you use that word. I didn't realize that and I'm not sure I've seen her Ted Talk, but I use that word all the time in clinic and I'll even tell the patient when we see him in clinic. I stole this from my oldest daughter's kindergarten teacher Because when we went this is our first time going to a school teacher meeting and I went in I was basically like how do I not screw this up? That was my question for the teacher.

Speaker 2: 34:44

But she had said in kindergarten they said the most powerful thing you can teach your child is the word. Yet Because the thing that they get most frustrated with in kindergarten is they can't read right, they know the alphabet, they know some words, but they get so frustrated they can't read. And we learned in our classroom when they expressed that that we always say the word, yet afterwards that I can't. I knew I can't read and I can't read yet. And if you think about it, how does the 10th grader end up illiterate Because nobody was around him or her early in their life to let them know that you know. It's okay that you don't know it now. You don't know it yet and they gave up that a fixed mindset. I don't know it. Therefore I'm dumb and then I don't. So I thought that to me like blew my mind when she had said that and I was like I am gonna teach that to all our patients who walk into clinic Because they are crazy frustrated. We will get them to do if you're really good on the movement rehabilitation that we do. There's some certain things that they think that they should be able to do and they can't do it and they get frustrated and we tell them you can't do it yet, right, because in their mind I should be able to do it. I can't do it. Therefore, I clearly don't have the innate ability to get a fixed mindset in getting better.

Speaker 2: 35:57

And that simple story of the kindergartner, of bringing in that story of like that's why your children aren't illiterate, because somebody taught them early, that's what you. You can't do it because you can't do it yet. So that word is tremendously powerful and I actually never tied it into the sadly, into the growth mindset side of it. But it's so true because if you can't do something, challenge yourself, right. It's an opportunity for you to do something that you're incapable of doing right now. But if you work hard, with a growth mindset, you will be able to do it. So if you find you can't do something, that word yet is what a wonderful and simple word. And using it in clinic, I will tell you, is a game changer and a light bulb goes on for people by that simple word. So, yeah, that's a great thing to bring up. That's a powerful word that I think should be written somewhere for everybody to kind of come back to. If you can't do something, you can't do it yet, and I think there's two points of that in my opinion.

Speaker 1: 36:53

Now, she didn't make the point, or Ted talked about it. There's two points about the word, yet All the points you made are exactly right. If you say I can't do it yet, you'll understand that you're in a process of trying to get there right.

Speaker 1: 37:09

You have to enjoy the process, man. You have to enjoy the process Because if you don't like getting up at 4 am in exercising, it's gonna be a new year's resolution, it's gonna be gone by January 2nd. It's not gonna happen. So you can understand the word yet and you're in a process of making yourself better, whether it's work, family, training, run, whatever. But you can truly enjoy the process every day. That's a game changer.

Speaker 1: 37:38

It's a game changer, so you can say I'm not there yet, but I'm enjoying the day to day to get there or try to get there.

Speaker 2: 37:48

Yeah, it's a game changer. My favorite moosism right, one of my favorite moosism. I swear we can write a book on a bunch of moosism is if you ever say I have to right, I have to, I have to go to swim Saturday, I can't do it. No, no, no, no, no, you get to.

Speaker 2: 38:08

And what a fantastic change of perspective on the things that we have a privilege to be able to do and instead of thinking that things are expected to you, but the moosism if you ever find that you say you have to always replace it with you get to, and I think that comes in the morning in your reflection time being grateful, right yeah, because if you write down things you're grateful for and you get to go to the pool and you get to go run trails, that's huge, that's enjoying the process.

Speaker 2: 38:41

Do you get up? Do you do a grateful? Did you tell me? Do you do a grateful? Do you wake up every day and write in the journal what you're grateful for Most days? Yep yeah, isn't that powerful to actually write it down.

Speaker 1: 38:51

Yeah, it starts your day off, right? Yeah, so if you write one or two or three things and you can't use the same thing over and over and over, that starts your day off, right?

Speaker 2: 38:59

So what do you do? How do you do it? What's it look like for you?

Speaker 1: 39:03

So for me it's coffee with MCT oil. That's a blast, and I mean cacophene blast because of the MCT oil.

Speaker 2: 39:11

I thought you meant it was just the blast. I love coffee in the morning with MCT oil. It is a blast, but it's a blast.

Speaker 1: 39:16

And then I was not long two or three minutes right now I'm grateful for, and then I'll either train or do my admin stuff and go from there.

Speaker 2: 39:23

And you keep a daily journal right. Yeah, that's. I mean, it's the simple things, right, but the biggest things I mean it starts every day like that yeah, and a lot of times.

Speaker 1: 39:37

that grateful list will cause me to reach out to people.

Speaker 2: 39:41

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 39:41

Right, my kids just want you to know I'm thankful for what you're doing. Yeah, my mom, my other people. If you're thankful to people, you just reach out to them and say, hey, just check in on me, make sure you're doing okay. Yeah, that's powerful. A lot of times it gets you out of your box thinking about your own misery.

Speaker 2: 39:58

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 39:59

And what your burden is.

Speaker 2: 40:01

Yeah, right. If you're grateful for friends and you reach out and say, hey, just checking in, make sure you're doing okay.

Speaker 1: 40:06

Yeah, that's impressive. So sometimes you'll be shocked with the response you get.

Speaker 2: 40:12

Yeah, yeah, yeah, but I mean as a recipient of that, it always means a lot. Sometimes it's just the random thing. Imagine, think about any time you've gotten a message from somebody you haven't heard. Or even if somebody you've talked to all the time, you just get a simple message hey man, check it out on you, how you doing. You're like, ah, good man, how are you. Like it feels good, I've gotten those messages from you. Hopefully you've gotten some of those from me. But that you know what I mean, that you're lifting somebody else's day. It's sort of that giver's gift. Right, you're checking in on people Because it's so easy nowadays, especially with just how busy we're all, so time poor. Right, we have thoughts in our head and we're thinking about other people, but they don't know that.

Speaker 2: 40:50

And how many times have I've reached out to somebody and they've been grateful for it, and you're like man yeah, just thinking about you.

Speaker 1: 40:58

So I'll put some else out there. So, as we've talked about mindset and having growth mindset and fixed mindset, one of the most amazing things I've ever witnessed is my sister went through chemo. She had some cancer issues and she is a freak of nature. Fitness was Freak of nature and she is living in Denver at 5,000 feet and almost every day during her chemotherapy she got out and ran. Yeah, wow, because her growth, my mindset was I am not well yet, right, yeah, yeah, and I'm going to define the process for me, which means I'm going to put my shoes on every day and hit the floor and if that leads into a run, that's fantastic. But her growth mindset was amazing. To watch as she battled B-cell lymphoma, it was amazing.

Speaker 2: 42:01

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 42:02

Amazing man, fixed mindset. I've got cancer, I'm done. I'm going to sit around and mope. It's got me. Yeah, growth mindset Every day. Put my shoes on and I have a plan every day.

Speaker 2: 42:16

Yeah, yeah. I mean the whole herring crew is so resilient. I mean you've had to have gotten that from your parents.

Speaker 1: 42:24

From your both of them.

Speaker 2: 42:26

Yeah, that's incredible, and look what she fought through in a great place now yeah, a great place.

Speaker 1: 42:34

She's a great place, yeah. So this mindset can apply to all aspects of your life. It can apply to your fitness, it can apply to your family, it can apply to work and it can apply to others, yeah totally.

Speaker 2: 42:49

And who in life doesn't? We all face setbacks, right? We all face challenges. We all face I mean, we're thrown into uncertainty many different times in life. And what are you going to do? What are you going to do? You're going to get to it and you're going to go in with this growth mindset. You're going to go in with a fixed mindset and if you look around, you see the difference of the outcome depending on how you approach it. It doesn't mean everything's going to go perfectly every time. You can go in with a growth mindset and all the wrong things can still happen. It's your response to it.

Speaker 2: 43:24

And you'll find there's something that I teach my children and it's sort of silly, but it's also true. And then think about it until now that it's rooted in a growth mindset and I teach them Greens fall upwards right and they know the line by now, because I want to ingrain with them and I was lucky enough to have parents that sort of taught me that, whether it helped me in sports, it helped me in school, it helped me in life. If something got knocked down 15 times, you got up 16. It's a growth mindset. What are you going to do? What are you going to learn from it and you're going to get up and you're going to move forward. But we have a saying of you're going to fall upwards. But that really means you've got a growth mindset right. I got knocked down it was a learning moment right, and I did X, y and Z and I can learn from that. So the next time I faced the same situation, I could approach it a little bit different. Maybe I had knocked down again and I learned and maybe I'm just a little bit closer to the solution because I had the opportunity to face something that challenged me.

Speaker 2: 44:18

It took what? Six Ironman's to finally have a good Ironman marathon and I can't tell you that I didn't have a fixed mindset by the third one. Just go, I don't think I'm designed for Ironman. I don't think I was made for this. You look at these chicken legs I got. You would think they were made for endurance, but clearly I can't do it.

Speaker 2: 44:36

But after you had that little bit of a pity party, you come back to the drawing board and you learn from it. You go to the next one and at some point so whether you've raced a marathon and it's not gone well yet right, maybe it's the sixth one it still hasn't gone well yet You've done Ironman and it still hasn't gone well, and you don't know why, but you haven't been able to do it yet. I know plenty of people who got stuck in the like just can't do it, man, can't do it, just can't do it. You know what this happens and that's my barrier. There's some sort of external excuse. So if you do things right, I would argue that you fall upwards. Right, you always fall upwards. Can you learn from it? Can you improve? And I teach my children that and I didn't realize, but that's sort of rooted in the growth, and you see so many different places, whether it's sport or it's work or it's life or it's family.

Speaker 1: 45:23

You just can't do things yet, and I think that also speaks to the second part of that. You haven't done it yet, but if you're enjoying the process yeah, you stay with it.

Speaker 1: 45:34

Yeah, if you haven't done it yet, and enjoy the process. It's a good day-to-day life. Yeah, right, yeah, they had taken you five or six Ironmans to run, where they did this fast marathon I don't know how about like you did, but in the you still wanted to be able to compete. You hadn't run super fast yet, as fast as you wanted to run yet, but you were enjoying the day-to-day.

Speaker 2: 46:00

You know what I wonder this is maybe a chicken or the egg question which comes first? Does the enjoyment come first or does that mindset come first? Because you start to enjoy, people who don't go in with that growth mindset don't embrace those challenges. And if they don't embrace those challenges, how rewarding is it to do hard things, something that you didn't think you could do? I mean, good Lord Ironman's tagline is like anything is possible. It's a beautiful tagline Because most people get into the sport they don't think they can do it, but by challenging themselves and putting themselves out the boundaries they do something that otherwise they had. A fixed mindset I can't go 140.6 miles by myself In reality is you can. So like I think there's a lot of enjoyment in the process by going in with this growth mindset. I think I really start to enjoy it more when I go in with it, as opposed to having to enjoy it and then get a growth mindset Kind of see what I'm saying like which one I think you're different.

Speaker 1: 47:00

I think I'm different Because I freaking love the process.

Speaker 2: 47:04

Yeah, I do too, though.

Speaker 1: 47:05

I do, too, love the training and I love pushing myself every day. I love being at the wine and people are trying to figure out why I'm sweating. I love the roar To love overcoming obstacles. I love the prod. I love the day to day. Yeah, right, and that's what entrenched is in me. I haven't reached my goals yet. Yeah, I love the day to day.

Speaker 2: 47:29

Yeah, I think you have to, but yeah, I don't know, I'm getting a little too deep for my own brain, Some people don't, but then they've got to find something else though. But if you don't love it, find something that you do love, Because, I agree with you, I think there's some people that do this that maybe shouldn't be doing it, because it might be my wife's a great example. So I'm fascinated by this. She woke up early in our relationship every morning, like five in the morning, and went running, and every morning, every single morning, I was just like man, that's incredible, Good, that's that's, and I'm talking years. And then she got into, I think, like yoga, Pilates, stuff, like that, and go start going to class stuff. She's like man, I love this stuff and. And she stopped running and I was like well, don't you want to get back to running? She's like no, I've always hated it. I was like you've hated it. I was like you hate running. She's like, yeah, I've never liked it, I just thought I was supposed to do it. I was like you've gotten up at five in the morning.

Speaker 2: 48:30

I was more impressed that she got up for several years to do something she actually really didn't enjoy doing because she didn't enjoy the sport. Like I don't enjoy. Like I, I enjoy a little bit of lifting. I don't like a lot of lifting. I'm an endurance athlete. So if you told me I had to wait lift five days a week for the rest of my life, I would sort of do it. If I had to, it'd be more like prison camp for me, but I wouldn't continue to do it because I don't like it. And I wouldn't continue to do it for several years.

Speaker 2: 48:55

So she did it for a long time because she thought she was supposed to. How many people do, do you see that maybe you're in in some sort of activity? They think that they're supposed to do it, but that actually don't like it, Don't like it. So if you don't love the process, find something that you do. There might be Marybeth's out there who think that they're supposed to run, they're supposed to do endurance sports or and and they've. They've maybe not discovered something that they love to do. You found your jam.

Speaker 1: 49:19

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 49:20

Your jam may not be, you know, sue's jam, it might not be Jim's jam. So, like, at the end of the day, find stuff you love, right. If you find you have a fixed mindset, you might find that you're sort of Debbie Downer because you don't have the right mindset. But if you go and approach something with a growth mindset and you're still miserable, good God, man, I've told people that all the time. Oh, you still do triathlon. I'm like, yeah, I love it. Man, I absolutely love it. As soon as I stop loving this, I'm going to find something else. I mean, we don't get paid for this, we do it. I mean there's certain days that are challenging, but if you don't love the process, find something that you do love, instead of like forcing something and there's people out there that I think are forcing it.

Speaker 1: 50:02

But I think if you love the process, it's easy to say yet yeah, totally.

Speaker 2: 50:06

Yeah, totally. Unless you have a fixed mindset though, which in turn, I don't think you love the process because you haven't had the mental game to enjoy the process. That's how I was kind of going with mine, and you won't say yet. You won't say yet no.

Speaker 1: 50:22

You'll say I didn't Not. Yet You'll say I did not.

Speaker 2: 50:27

And you'll likely keep that fixed mindset and not find something that you're passionate about, that you like the process because you never gave yourself the opportunity, right, right, and I mean, as I think about it, you can start to kind of like be aware of that sort of lonely lifestyle. You can start to see people who do that. So it's hard, man. That's how important this stuff is. I think I didn't think it transcends like whether I'm going to have a great race or not, right? I think there's a lot of like quality of life stuff rooted in this. It's all aspects of life. Yeah, so growth mindset, man, where else? Where else do you have it? You got it everywhere.

Speaker 1: 51:06

I don't. I mean I focus on those hub one, two, three, family work, training, right, and if I can love the process with the family, if I can love the process with work and love the process with training, and I'm making scary goals and reaching those scary goals and I haven't had a reason to scary goals yet, I'm grateful.

Speaker 2: 51:28

Yeah, makes my list One, two, three, one two three and we've got some podcasts on making some of those stretch goals that you can kind of go back to. And they've got to be like you said. They've got to be stretch goals. They've got to be something that takes you to the next level, that takes you a little bit out of your comfort zone. So write that old saying of what shoot for the stars and you might hit the moon.

Speaker 1: 51:50

But with the situation that I mean I think you're in too is I'm having a hard time making goals for the year. Yeah, I mean, I got knocked down with it with my calf and I'm having a ripman Part of it. I'm blaming Iron man and PTO for not putting their race series out yet, but I'm having a hard time making goals. But even though I don't have long term scary goals, I'm enjoying the day to day.

Speaker 2: 52:16

So if you don't have, if you don't have those, what are you doing now? Like, what's keeping you enjoying it every like you are, I love the process.

Speaker 1: 52:25

And what does that mean to you? So I love getting up and riding the bike, love this stupid ass rowing program I'm doing and I have really emerged myself in this calf rehab that I think I'm almost better.

Speaker 2: 52:41

So you, you mean to tell me when you wake up at four. You're thrilled to wake up at four.

Speaker 1: 52:46

Yes, I don't use an alarm? You don't, and I most days I'll lay there for three, three to four, forcing myself to stay in bed. Really, yeah, that's incredible.

Speaker 2: 53:01

It's not incredible, it's not good for your health. There's a balance there somewhere.

Speaker 1: 53:07

So I forced me to go get go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go go. My wife doesn't like very much, yeah, but I'm a good bit early, but at 3.30, I mean my phone charger is 100%. Yeah, I could easily get up at 3.30, but three as an hour in the morning is very different than four. Yeah, four is actually morning, three is nighttime.

Speaker 2: 53:27

So do you ever have to force yourself to do something you don't want to do? Sure, how do you do that?

Speaker 1: 53:37

It has to have importance to me, yeah, right.

Speaker 2: 53:40

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 53:40

Like it's like the wintertime. Well, it's probably not a good example, but it's hard for me to get in the pool in the winter. Yeah, I like, like swimming. I grew up swimming. I mean, I'm doing it. But you know, communication back and forth with the guys right in my program right now is like, dude, I am a good swimmer, Dude, I am so motivated to train I am not motivated to get in the pool at all. I'm not, yeah, I haven't swum in two or three weeks.

Speaker 2: 54:08

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 54:09

But I'm rowing instead. Yeah, I'm doing a lot of swim bands. Yeah, I'm doing this pull-up challenge. Rowan's challenged me, so I'm so motivated to train. Yeah, but I'm not motivated to get in the water and I'm not getting in the water At some point. That's a change.

Speaker 2: 54:25

Yeah, but you know what I mean. That's, that's. I don't think that that's a bad thing. Right, you, you are like you said you enjoy the process. You talked about enjoying the process, but I would say that you're enjoying the process because you're allowing some space to do the things you love to do, rather than forcing the things you don't want to do, right, right, so if you really don't want to do it and maybe there's to me, like, as we talk about it, there's probably a lot of positives that go behind not doing it so that way, when, when the right time hits, you're motivated to swim, what if you forced yourself to do it right now, even though you didn't want to do it? You'd be burned out when you need to do it Now, if it was like in season and you needed it for like your performance and for swimming and be like well, I think you should get in the water. But you're, you're allowing yourself. So, as you say, you enjoy the process.

Speaker 2: 55:12

I think that there's something to be learned there to say that you've you've allowed yourself not to do the things you don't want to do. Right, and there's, you can have an argument of saying that, well, it's not that crazy important to be doing it right now. Anyway, right, um, for you at this time, because you're still going to swim like a fish by the time the season starts. Yeah, because you're going to pick up at the right time. So I think that's kind of neat to find out that, like you don't swim a certain amount of time, um, because you're doing other things that you enjoy to do that get you out of bed at four in the morning because they give you enjoyment, right, I think that's kind of neat and it's, I think, um, I think not enough people do that. I think not enough people find stuff that makes them happy.

Speaker 1: 55:48

And I don't mean this the wrong way, but I don't think a lot of people enjoy the process like I enjoy the process, yeah.

Speaker 2: 55:56

Yeah, you're a bit of a freak show, though.

Speaker 1: 55:57

No, I don't really like it in. You know I give myself challenges. You know, if you want some fun challenge to look at, start a pull-up challenge. Yeah, a lot of us can't do any pull-ups, but you can do it. You can do assistive pull-ups. If you want a challenge, start a road challenge.

Speaker 2: 56:17

Yeah, but that's where I was going with it from before. I think that there's. I mean, we might have a bit of addictive personalities, but I would tell you that Not might. Yeah, okay, this is a group meeting. I'm Rob Green. I have an addictive personality.

Speaker 1: 56:31

We are addicted to all things excessive.

Speaker 2: 56:34

Yeah, yeah I guess so.

Speaker 2: 56:38

Yeah, all right, all right. All right, all right. I'm not in denial, but what I was going with it is that doing hard things ends up becoming fun. It gets you out of bed in the morning, but it's starting to do things that, like you said, hey, let's do a road challenge, let's do a pull-up challenge, let's do a plank challenge, let's do a challenge. Let's see incremental self-improvement. Right, there's something I'm addicted to. It's, you know, constant self-improvement. Right, because you had a coach once tell me and I think it's so accurate you're either getting better today or you're getting worse today. He'd start every practice that way. What are you going to do today? Because nothing stays the same.

Speaker 1: 57:14

So I think, when you would, that's a growth mindset.

Speaker 2: 57:16

That's a growth. That's what I'm saying. I think a growth mindset leads to the person who you don't have to get out of bed. I'm not going to get out of bed at four in the morning. That doesn't make me happy. That's like you're swimming in the winter, like if you told me how to get up at four in the morning, I don't care. If it was to go eat cake. It'd be like no, I'm not getting up at four in the morning, but that's me, so it's different for me.

Speaker 2: 57:35

So some many people may cringe, some people might be motivated with that, but I think if you have a growth mindset and you're challenging yourself and you're watching yourself evolve, I think that there is a lot of beauty that comes from that and I think that gives you love of the process. I think that gives you motivation to get up and create action. So I think the growth mindset, I think that there's so much power into the growth mindset I think the growth mindset leads to the love of the process that you have. I don't think the love of the process leads to a growth mindset. That's where I was kind of going. I think it feels like you got love, and it's so true because your growth mindset is so ingrained into your DNA and it's always been like that since I've known you.

Speaker 2: 58:17

So you have been grateful from the get go. Not everybody's had that luxury, right. Not many people have had that luxury where they have been challenged like that. Your mom is one of the strongest individuals I've ever met in my entire life. Right, my mom is wired very much like I'm the apple to her tree. I'm grateful every day. Oftentimes in my gratitude I'll send a text and be like I hope to be half the parent you all are and do that for my child. Hey, greens fall upwards. So I think a lot of that love of the process because not a lot of people have it, because maybe they haven't been challenged enough or they haven't seen this. I mean, I didn't know about this sort of growth mindset and fixed mindset and I could see in my life how the growth mindset lived in a lot of it. But it also exposed the fact that, like I, had some fixed mindset things that need to be improved. But I think that growth mindset leads to the love of the process that you have.

Speaker 2: 59:11

Recognition of it, recognition of it and gravitation to the stuff that you do love, because for us it's endurance. We are in love with endurance, lifestyle Right. Other people can be excessively right. It feels that support group meeting that we got which is a much better vice than the alternatives that could be in place of it. But maybe it's knitting, maybe it's like, maybe it's tennis, maybe it is like I don't even know whatever sort of hot pickleball right and people get up and they get up at early in the morning. My dad's was fishing. Fishing is his jam. He would get up. His lifestyle, my lifestyle through our years have been very much the same, where he's up super in the morning but his is out fishing and mine's out swim, bike running.

Speaker 2: 1:00:00

But that process is there, in the love of it, because you're able to find it, because you approached it with a growth mindset Right, and it gave you an opportunity. It gave you a vehicle to always extend your boundaries. So I think you're right, man. I think you're a rarity, but I think you're an inspiration for a lot of people. That I mean honestly. I mean a lot and that comes from knowing locally how you inspire a lot of people and I think it comes from growth mindset, and I think it's something that we can all be mindful of to find our passions, to find the things that we love to do, to live a life that we're proud of, to live a life that, like, excites us every day when we wake up, to approach challenges, whether it's at work or at life. I think it's rooted in this. I think that's how powerful it is.

Speaker 1: 1:00:46

But do you think you can teach somebody to enjoy hard sessions if they don't really enjoy hard sessions?

Speaker 2: 1:00:54

Yes. However, I think right, I think we're doing. It's like you build a plan. If your destination is enjoyment of hard sessions, it doesn't go from on the couch to enjoying hard sessions, because what's hard, right? I love I heard it somewhere came up.

Speaker 2: 1:01:10

It was it said the hardest thing you've ever done is the hardest thing you've ever done. So the hardest thing you've ever done is the hardest thing you've ever done. So in order to challenge yours, yours have to be loftier. But who's to say that, like, it's not harder for that person who's 300 plus pounds to get up and just go for a walk for 10 minutes? Maybe that's a bigger accomplishment in a harder drive than going and waking up at four in the morning and pushing some like crazy amount of wattage on a bike. So, and what that would do, maybe over an expanded timeline, with a growth mindset, is it would take that person's challenge and make it harder and harder and harder and hard, and maybe at one day they would look at it and they would see things that, yeah, they're doing remarkably hard things, but it's a relative term, right, the hardest thing is the growth mindset.

Speaker 1: 1:01:54

You want to do harder and harder and harder and harder things.

Speaker 2: 1:01:57

How do you, how do you eat an elephant? You eat it one bite at a time, right.

Speaker 1: 1:02:00

Because a fixed, because a fixed mindset is going to say I only have the ability to do certain amount of things and those abilities don't change.

Speaker 2: 1:02:08

Yeah, and I think it comes back to growth mindset. I don't think right. You look at the person who's doing really hard things and you make it go. They look, they make it look so easy. It's like a business owner. I used to look at that as a business owner. You would see a business owner who had a really successful business and be like man, they got it made. Look what they've done, look what they've accomplished and their day to day looks so smooth and what you don't see is all the sweat equity that went into that.

Speaker 2: 1:02:36

You can't open up a shop and have that business be what that person's earned so like while they did it. And you go well, how do I get there? And you go dude, you got it like. You got to just do the day to day. You got to definitely have a growth mindset if you're going to make it that far. But I think we look at it and we see the destination and I think maybe that's even as we look at the world. We look at people that have things and we go look at, I should have some of that, I, I should have earned that, and you didn't earn it. You didn't get there with the growth mindset you can. So what seems like lofty or what seems unfair to ask of other people is given it their certain situation. But what's not unfair to ask them is to have a growth mindset as opposed to a fixed one, because a fixed mindset will never get to where you are.

Speaker 1: 1:03:17

Right.

Speaker 2: 1:03:18

Right, because and somebody who's starting right can't get to where somebody who's had a growth mindset for two decades they don't quite have the same skill level, but you can take somebody with a fixed mindset for five decades of their life and they have a conscious choice to change it and start to change everything around them. So, yeah, I think I think doing hard things is that to me, you know, helps me love the process. I love the process. In fact, I feel lost without that sort of stretch goal because you know, yeah, maybe PTO doesn't have anything out, maybe Iron man doesn't have anything out, but as I look at next year, I don't have something that's like on my mind that's challenging me and it's a void.

Speaker 2: 1:03:56

I want to have something. My growth mindset demands it, because if I'm going to grow, I need to be on the edge of my ability. Growth happens on the edge of your ability and if you don't put yourself on the edge of ability, you're either getting better, you're getting worse, and if I'm not on my edge of ability, I'm decaying. So that's, that's something that's lost and I'm I'm a little frazzled by it, to be honest. But but, because it's a growth mindset and a fixed mindset likes it when you don't have anything. That's sort of challenging and unfortunately you're not staying stagnant, you're actually becoming less than right and things become harder. So that's kind of where I was going with it. I think that growth mindset has led to something that is just ingrained in you right. That I think if you read this book and you look at your life, I think can improve it quite a bit. And next thing you know you're trying to find things that get you out of bed, because that's they gravitate to four not well, but depends before four.

Speaker 2: 1:04:51

And if you find something that gets you up at four in the morning, man, you're on the right track. I'll tell you that much.

Speaker 1: 1:04:56

Yeah, I had an interesting discussion with a good good friend of mine in training part this week and we were talking about some different things and he said, wow, that that's some good suffering. And I thought about it and I texted him back. I said I can't really label something that makes me so happy yeah, suffering, I love that. I don't see it as suffering. I love that I don't see it. You can't say suffer fast yeah, because I love it. Suffering is in my mind when you do define suffering. You think you're sick and you're laying in the bed and you're shivering fever and you're miserable.

Speaker 1: 1:05:35

Yeah for me to be on the edge of my ability or past the edge of my ability or in the medical tent because I went over the edge of my ability. That ain't suffering, dude. That's living life to the fullest. And my point to him was I'm grateful that ain't suffering.

Speaker 2: 1:05:57

Yeah, I couldn't suffer. I could not agree with you more.

Speaker 1: 1:06:01

Suffering is my wife, who had to deal with me not being able to run for four weeks. Yeah, she was suffering Because I was an ass, yeah. So I don't want to hear how your training is making you suffer. I don't want to hear you call it a suffer fast because, guess what? You should be grateful for being able to put yourself on the edge every single time.

Speaker 2: 1:06:21

Yeah, I can't love that more. That's always bug me of like suffer fast or like man I was, in all the different ways we describe it, because you know what it is. It's yeah, it's it's Libby tolerating you not being able to. It's Mary Beth being able to tolerate me when I can't do my things. But it's going without food right, that is like not having enough money to pay the rent. Like we chose this. This is this is you're on the edge of your ability. You're exploring your true character. It's a. I am lucky to be there. You're getting better, hopefully, exactly right, and it is. It is amazing, right.

Speaker 1: 1:06:58

It's a pit peeve of mine.

Speaker 2: 1:07:00

Yeah, man you're suffering.

Speaker 1: 1:07:02

No, I'm not yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:07:05

That's funny. That's always sort of been in the back of my head where I was like that's not, like, that's suffered, like what? If you're really that suffering, why are you doing it? Shouldn't be doing it?

Speaker 1: 1:07:12

Yeah, no, if you consider it's, if you consider running the last 10k of a Iron man marathon is suffering, yeah, you can do something different.

Speaker 2: 1:07:22

Yeah, yeah, I do. I couldn't have. I mean, there, there are good adjectives to use I was grinding it out, I was, I was in a dark place, I was in, but like on the edge. Yeah, you're on the edge, man, and you put yourself there. That's exactly right. You paid to be there, that's exactly right.

Speaker 1: 1:07:35

I think you, you and I have been been been in several races and I have a dear friend. He was doing some some multi-stage you know, mountain bike race, oh yeah, and he was at stage six and they gone from like sea level up to this, up to the snow line, and this guy is the most positive spirit you've ever heard in your life. He turned to his butt in the back and I know this for a fact. Can you believe we paid for this shit, so yeah you did, you put yourself in that situation but you're not suffering.

Speaker 2: 1:08:06

Yeah, now, I'm a true believer, like I love to know where the line is, and the only way to know where the line is if you cross it every once in a while. So if you cross the line every once in a while, you're going to find out and that's a dark place to be, but like that's your exploring it and that's and you're lucky to be there and it also lets you know that you got pretty good goals. If you don't accomplish every single goal you set forth, you're like I don't know what you're talking about Then I would challenge you that you don't have very good goals Because you should be on the edge of your ability. And if you're going to do it, you're going to find that maybe you wrote a check you can't cash. That's okay and that's all right. You're that's not suffering.

Speaker 1: 1:08:44

You haven't been able to cash it yet.

Speaker 2: 1:08:46

Yeah, yeah, Growth mindset. No, I love. I didn't know that was a pet peeve. There's always been a pet peeve in mine as well, and I always, I always, I always thought that was like just felt wrong.

Speaker 1: 1:08:56

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:08:57

You're not suffering.

Speaker 1: 1:08:58

Yeah suffering. Lessons from the knuckleheads.

Speaker 2: 1:09:07

All right. So lessons from the knuckleheads I got a good lesson for us. It's Christmas time and it's holidays, and there are Christmas cookies everywhere, right? And you just said that we might like things excessively. I really do. I also like cookies excessively. So today's key word is going to be moderation. One lesson from knucklehead and I always think about this anytime we're traveling, and I got to go uphill and I'm like man, I shouldn't have had as many cookies as I did Is this holiday. Enjoy yourself, have fun. Put a cookie count. Put a cookie count on your night. So you know what? I am allowed to have three cookies, only three. Well, I was just trying to be nice and make it sound like, okay, I'm allowed to have a half dozen cookies, yep, and I'm going to choose wisely. But I'm going to be better behaved. And one of the things that helps, too, is this glucose monitor I got on my arm, because then I'm like I don't feel so good. Then I check my graph and I'm like, oh man.

Speaker 1: 1:10:08

That's why.

Speaker 2: 1:10:09

Yeah, so lesson from knuckleheads and Moose you, you are lean, mean machine. No, but I like cookies, you do, and chocolate, and chocolate.

Speaker 1: 1:10:18

And that may be why I train. It's like an eat cookies.

Speaker 2: 1:10:20

That's why, right, you burn the engine hot enough you could throw anything in there. Yes, right, that used to be my philosophy. Then I got mid forties and late forties and it is a little bit different than it used to be. But moderation, this holiday lesson from knucklehead I'm not going to be able to do that. What's your count? What's your? What's your cookie count?

Speaker 1: 1:10:37

I don't count, you don't count, and if there's not a number, it can't be too many, it can't be too many.

Speaker 2: 1:10:43

So how many would you have? As many as I want, as many as you want, but I've not you. You do a pretty good job, no.

Speaker 1: 1:10:51

Dude, I love cooking. Man, I love sweets.

Speaker 2: 1:10:54

So lesson from knucklehead, though. What are you going to teach the knuckleheads? Moderation, moderation.

Speaker 1: 1:10:59

Unless you want more Unless you want more thing, run further. Get your ass up at four o'clock, burn that engine hot.

Speaker 2: 1:11:07

If you ride 300 watts for an hour, use as many cookies as you want.

Speaker 1: 1:11:12

I still like that excessive lifestyle. I like cookies.

Speaker 2: 1:11:15

Yeah, moderation, though man, it'll catch up with you. At least it does for me.

Speaker 1: 1:11:25

All right. So I think that's a great discussion around growth mindset. I would highly encourage you folks to get out and get Carol DeWex book mindset the new, the new psychology of success. And just summarizing, I think you can use growth mindset in all three of the hub tiers One is family, one is work and three main. One is work, one is family to his work, three is training and I would just encourage you to enjoy the process, learn along the way, don't be scared of reaching for big, scary goals and don't be scared to use the word.

Speaker 2: 1:12:01

Yet yeah, I think that's a really big, important word to remember and go back to, just remember what your belief, what the change in belief is. Right, it starts with the belief. Take a look and see how that helps you approach your challenges, how it helps you approach the effort that you put in, whether that helps you approach the setbacks that you may face, and then how you approach any feedback that you get or that are given to you and you know, watch it have a positive impact on your life. And, like Dr Herring said, start with the word yet right, how many times do you find yourself frustrated by something only to think that something's fixed? You know one little secret way to make it really simple like Dr Herring said, what's? Come back to the word yet.

Speaker 1: 1:12:48

So the fixed if you can get out of the fixed mindset, it takes a lot of the negative thoughts out of your head. Yeah, it really does.

Speaker 2: 1:12:55

It really does. Yeah, other people, I think people around you would really notice, because if you have a fixed mindset, you might never realize that in a group setting, maybe you're the one that's sort of like bringing it down. So it'll help you live a more positive, more impactful life. It'll have a positive effect on you, especially the ones around you and in the hub way, right, family first, right Lead by example for your family at home, and whether that's with your spouse or your children or, you know, your parents or you as parents, has such a such a transcending effect to those around you.

Speaker 2: 1:13:29

Look at it at work, right, how can I improve my work surrounding? How can I lead through example? How can I motivate and inspire other people? It starts with how you respond there and your energy you give off has an impact on other people. And then how does it affect your training, right? So it's important we look at it and maybe listen to this podcast, because you know we're triathletes and we love all things endurance and we like to cover that. But reality is in the hub way it's family and then it's work and then it's training. So see how it impacts your life. The book is incredible, whether you read it, or you know, on your next long bike ride. Audiobooks are fantastic and that's a nice read as well. I think that's how I listen to it a lot of times on the long bike ride. So yeah, just very powerful.

Speaker 2: 1:14:12

Enjoy so mindset Mike mindset when you get to a fork in the road. What's your mindset when you get to a fork in the road?

Speaker 1: 1:14:21

I love the process, I love going uphill.

Speaker 2: 1:14:24

Take the harder route and we're not to the top yet we're not. So, in that mindset, take the harder route, go uphill.