#21 The Little Things That Lead to Big Results: A Runner's Guide to Longevity and Performance

Speaker 1: 0:02

Welcome. I'm Dr Moose Herring, Orthopedic Sports Medicine Specialist.

Speaker 2: 0:06

I'm Dr Rob Green, Sports Chiropractor, Coach, Trustee Sidekick. We are Lifetime Endurance Athletes. We are Eager Lab Rats.

Speaker 1: 0:13

We are Maker of many mistakes. We are Family-focused Sports Medicine Docs that are balancing family work and fitness and are enjoying the ride. While we are Sports Medicine Professionals, this podcast is not part of our professional responsibilities. No doctor, patient or coach-athlete relationship developed this podcast. We have no financial support from any outside resources. The only support we get is from our fantastic wives that sit back and look at us in complete dismay.

Speaker 2: 0:42

Welcome to HubLife. Enjoy the show Back to HubLife Better than ever. How you doing Moose Fantastic. Seven weeks off, Seven weeks off. So tell us about that, man, Where'd you go? You had this sound pretty epic.

Speaker 1: 0:56

Yeah, we had a great trip. We had been playing the trip for a couple years. One of my wife's friends set up a cruise. I was a little bit nervous Me being trapped on a boat. It was actually super enjoyable. Great time with Libby. The cruise was pretty cool. We went down the Danube River. You remember the Danube River. We swam it. You swam it.

Speaker 1: 1:22

The challenge wrote it's fantastic, but you know the view of the river and it was great. I was telling you this morning. And running it was a great way to see a bunch of areas and just unpacking your stuff once, that's pretty cool, fantastic. So you got on the boat, you unpacked your stuff and the boat went place to place and it was small boats. You didn't feel trapped and the fantastic thing was the boat for the most part would be docked in early in the morning and I was like a caged animal, traipsing back and forth waiting for daylight, because as soon as the daylight would come they'd open the doors, I could get off the boat and I got to run some fantastic places Trails and castles and parks and all kind of stuff that's so cool.

Speaker 2: 2:04

Yeah, the thought of being on a boat scares me a lot because I feel like some like like hurted, hurted cattle, but it sounds like the way to do it, because it's a smaller boat and you got to go out and you're already there it was great because every single day, by eight o'clock, I had had my 60 and 90 minute session in and you knocked out my ADD nervousness. And.

Speaker 1: 2:22

I was able to settle in and then enjoy the trip, but it's great way to see you know that part of the country, yeah, and something just to share.

Speaker 2: 2:34

We do our trail runs and we did it this morning and it's what we think of as our board meeting Right? So you get out and you got to tell the story, man, because I thought that was fantastic of the castle story, of the challenging trip that the castle was. So tell us the castle story. And just an FYI this is exactly this story totally embodies moose. This is a moose-ism and I just thought it was like, man, that was just so great.

Speaker 1: 3:01

So I'm not a guy who runs every day, I'm just not. I know my body didn't hold up running every day, but on the boat for some reason I was able to. I did some easy runs and some hardies, but on this, on this particular day, I was. I was kind of kind of ramped up and wanted to run quote hard. And the boat had docked somewhere in Germany and where the boat was sitting you could look across the river and there was this castle way up on the hill and I was like that's a cool place to run to. I'm going there and you know, down here hill castle, that looks cool.

Speaker 1: 3:36

So I got off at daybreak and took off and found a bridge that went across the river and we had this just spectacular trail that was actually labeled Enchanted Forest and it was a neat trail system and there were stairs and all kind of really cool stuff going up to this castle. And the first time I got up there it was probably it was actually pretty short, it's 15 to 18 minutes, it was 15, 50 hours. I was like this is a great place for hill repeats. So I sauntered down the hill again. I hit the river was and sprinted up the hill again 14 minutes, heart rate through the roof Because I was going from Descending hill rifts, descending hill rifts and then on number three, again just a nice hard hill trail run and felt me over only five, six miles, had a fantastic hour session and I got back to the boat and you know the boat was set up.

Speaker 1: 4:35

So every day there were three activities. There was a lighter activity for folks who wanted to do a short walk. There was a classic activity for folks who wanted to walk farther, and then there was a aggressive activity and I asked the cruise director person what's the aggressive activity day? And he started. He started talking like oh, this is going to be a super aggressive hike, only the finish should go. And he, we walked out where the ship was docked. He said we're going to go from there all the way to the castle.

Speaker 1: 5:09

And I was like that's awesome. I just, I just ran that this morning. He looked at me kind of strange. He said what he said no, no, we're going to go up the steep stairs and go up the trail. And I was like, yeah, I ran that. And the awesome thing was I did hill repeats three times. Each one got faster. He's one got faster and he didn't believe me. But you know, thank goodness for Garmin Connect, the training piece. I said here's a trail and here's a repeat. My heart rate was ridiculously high so he got frustrated.

Speaker 2: 5:36

He walked away.

Speaker 1: 5:38

His plan to aggressive was to hike up there and later that night there were some people on the cruise boat that did this aggressive hike and my wife she may have made the comment move. Move to three hill repeats during your, you know, same area where you did your aggressive hike.

Speaker 2: 5:56

That's so funny, man. They're like oh man, how about today? Today was a great day. I didn't know we were going to get through it. Moose was like that was number four. That was the recovery one apparently it was.

Speaker 1: 6:06

It was like 12 minutes slower than my slowest one. Oh God, I love that. I think and reason. I told you that story that really, for me, goes along with hub life, where I want to be doing this stuff forever. And for me you know we're looking at Kona this week the value for me to be able to get off the boat and run healthy in all these cool places was fantastic. Yeah, man, and there are people in my same age that can't walk, can't do anything, but because of the you know the hub black mentality of health span, not life span, living long, exercising, being fit.

Speaker 1: 6:46

Yeah, there's a lot to be game by getting off the boat and doing doing hill repeats.

Speaker 2: 6:51

Yeah, and it's easier on vacation to not do that and find a reason why not. And what a shout out to our good buddy, david Gallagher, who taught us always go right, always go. There's always a reason not to do something. But just, dude, always go. You'll not regret it. And so for you to be able to to see that on vacation and see some epic places. But man, what a great moose is. I'm like today's gonna be a tough day. We're gonna go all the way up there. You're like huh, well, I did that three times, I'll do it again. Yeah, why not?

Speaker 1: 7:20

And my heart rate was high. But yeah, I'll go.

Speaker 2: 7:22

Sure, so do I need to run gear back on? Are we just like? Oh, we're just walking up it, oh, okay.

Speaker 1: 7:30

You know, and there was one other guy on the boat that was relatively fit and a decent cyclist and he actually rode from one stopping point to another along the thing and I'd already done my. I had promised my wife I'd exercise the morning and be around her in the day, so I got my session in. But there was one boat stop where it was like 17 miles to the next boat stop. He rode but just, which was fantastic. So nice to have fit people.

Speaker 2: 7:56

What a beautiful way to do it, man, to know that you're doing this for longevity, that it's more about getting out the door and just staying mobile and staying healthy.

Speaker 1: 8:02

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 8:02

You know, use it or lose it and move, but then doing it early and getting up and getting, so that way you can be totally present for family, because you were probably back by the time she was waking up.

Speaker 1: 8:13

She didn't even know you were going. I was back at eight or eight 30. I was a little bit late for breakfast every day but my my anxiety level was down, I was calm and I was fatigued and it was a happy day, but now you say that about that made me think of something I don't know if we've ever shared, like why your name Moose, right?

Speaker 1: 8:31

Didn't? How'd you get the name Moose? So my dad gave it to me when I was six months old because he did a lot of back country hiking and skiing and that kind of stuff and noticed that Moose were happy as long as they were eating. But if you ever mess with them while they're eating they got angry. And apparently when I was a little kid I was happy as long as I was shoveling food in, but if you ever stopped me I got upset.

Speaker 2: 8:50

Yeah, so I'm thinking of you on this boat of like shoveling in anybody coming next to you and like start to growl at them or something like that, that's mine. That's mine. Yeah, oh, dude, that I just. I've put a great story, so it's nice.

Speaker 1: 9:00

It's nice having two weeks in. By the way, happy anniversary.

Speaker 2: 9:05

What man Conan last year Conan day. Happy Conan day.

Speaker 1: 9:09

Conan day, you know, and it's six hours behind. So at this point you and Justin and I were sitting at the hotel there waiting for the misery, I'm sorry, waiting for the joy to start, and sitting there and everybody was. All the training was done. We were super fit.

Speaker 2: 9:30

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 9:30

We were. We were ready to line up and ready to roll, but that day is a hard dude day.

Speaker 2: 9:39

I love it when you qualify and Hessian or good buddy, john Hessian has been there a few times is like congratulations. Now you get to go race on the sun, have fun, and your privilege to be there and you know what, what? What an epic day all I mean. We were there last year and we were texting man. This brings back such fun memories crazy to think as a year ago, but that was when they did. They split the races, the men's win in the women, but this is all women one day race, all women. So big props to them. And boy did they deserve it. I mean, if anything, an Iron man, the last, I mean really, since it's inception, the women have gotten a short end of the stick when it comes to qualifying spots because of percentages and things like that. But so what a wonderful time for them to celebrate and have the course of their own and have the focus point be purely on them and opportunities for some just super awesome and fit females to be out there.

Speaker 1: 10:30

And yeah, big day man, and I don't know if you guys have followed it, I mean, if you followed it, but the strength of the field this year is is really saying yeah, I mean, there are some phenomenal swimmers, I mean phenomenal swimmers and there are some ridiculous cyclists and the women are now running as far as has 115, 116, which is fantastic.

Speaker 2: 10:57

Yeah, it used to be like one or two, like you were. You were looking at Daniela Reef If she had a good day, she's winning, if she didn't have a good day, lucy Charles online in line. But now, dude, there's there's a stack field to where everybody it's. It's going to be impressive.

Speaker 1: 11:11

Yeah, and the interesting thing is going to me is going to be how Taylor Nib goes, because it this is her Ironman Ironman debut. The only reason she's there is because her mom is racing.

Speaker 2: 11:26

Really.

Speaker 1: 11:27

Yes, wow, well, that's pretty cool.

Speaker 2: 11:28

I didn't know that it's fantastic, so she she has already qualified for the Olympics.

Speaker 1: 11:32

Yeah, so she was short course racing, and apparently six weeks ago, but, but, but, because she won half Ironman World Champs, she got an automatic automatic spot. And so she said sure, I'll go to Kona, I've never raced. And my, my, my mom's gonna race and I'm gonna, I'm gonna see. Yeah, and the person interviewed and said if you ever run a marathon, no, no, I've run 17 or 18 miles before.

Speaker 2: 11:54

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 11:54

But she can swim like a fish and she she's so strong on the bike. Now you know, nutrition for full and that kind of stuff is different boggings, but it's gonna be interesting to see how she goes. The other one that's gonna be interesting is cat Matthews, who was, who was third or second or third, maybe fourth at at at Half Ironman World, and somebody asked her what's the father she's ever run and she and she said 14 miles.

Speaker 2: 12:20

That reminds me of um calf ray, right, marina calf ray. When she won, I think she was like I haven't run more than 18 miles and you're like, well, you just look like you ran like fresh marathon, right, that's wild, but I think the strength I think it's.

Speaker 1: 12:32

I think there's gonna be a pack of very, very, very fast women, yeah, and I think that pack may keep Daniela from having a hard time bridging up the front.

Speaker 2: 12:43

Yeah, because those girls can ride, yeah, man.

Speaker 1: 12:45

And then the run. I mean any, you know any how from Germany has run 240, something yeah that's why that's my pick of the winner.

Speaker 2: 12:55

I think, I think, and how it's gonna win this year. She, she's a running machine.

Speaker 1: 12:59

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 13:00

Yeah, yeah. Remember, the cool part with last year was we raced on Saturday and the women race on Thursday. So we, we, during that hyper taper, we watched it and that that Chelsea Sedaro was like out of the blue and she's being chased down by Anne Haig and you're just like, well, when's she gonna catch her? And Chelsea Sedaro just had a blinder that day. It'd be interesting to see Like it's so hard to back it up. But, like her, her performance last year was just so cool. It'd be neat to American women to to win Kona, but man, this year. So who's your, who's your pick? Who do you think?

Speaker 1: 13:32

I think I kind of agree with you. I think any. I'd love to see any how it went? Lucy Charles has been been second three or four years, I'm not sure, but she's had a tough year. She's had stress fractures over here, stress fractures of her foot, so but but sometimes those people that haven't had the huge running miles are the freshest. I mean, are the fresh and fit and ready to roll. But I think Taylor Nibb is she. She she's kind of this happy and lucky person and she gets out there.

Speaker 2: 14:03

You ain't catching her now and it, you know, daniel Rifa reminds me a lot of of of Jan Ferdino, right? So she's just like she was the one that was. You were there to beat and you kind of had to have an off day. How does she, how does she approach this now, you know, in the stage of her career, but then also having that much competition, because she's a beast man she is. We saw her last year riding back and we were a little bit surprised. We were only what. We were only about 15 miles from from T two and she had a pretty big gap between her and the front and she had closed it down by the time they got to T two. So I think I put a dent in her. But you know she's gonna be challenged in ways that she's not used to being challenged.

Speaker 2: 14:43

And, man, what a, what a fun day to I don't know about. We're all tri geeks. I hope everybody's out there doing the same thing, but, man, you know it. Also. Here's what I always find fascinating about Conan we watch it, good Lord. It's a long day, man, these, there is the fastest of the fast, yeah. And then you're like you watch the swim because there's so much and you can watch it for an hour and there's just so much going on. They get on the bike. You watch it for a little bit. You're like, all right, I gotta go run some air, air ins. It's mid day for us on the East Coast and you're gone for a couple hours and you come back, you check in. You're like, oh, they're not even like halfway on the bike. And then you do something else. You're like, oh, it's been a long time since I saw him. Where are they? And they're like they're still in the back half of the bike and and they're blazing fast.

Speaker 1: 15:20

But what a long day man and the elements are ridiculous.

Speaker 2: 15:27

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 15:28

Yeah, I mean, the swim is an is an ocean non wet suit, swim Big swells, and it's big swells and everybody swims the same. So it's a battle. Every single stroke is is challenged. You come that bike and the winds are like nothing you ever felt before. And then the run the heat is just relentless.

Speaker 2: 15:49

Dude, that Queen K is just a special experience. I mean, you go? You get up there and you're like oh, I feel like an egg frying Right, but you know it's something that I'm yeah because you are, you're legit.

Speaker 2: 15:59

I mean legitimately, it is, it is just so. I was. I was thinking about that as I was like, oh, you know what, I'm gonna check the weather. I was like, oh, that's useless to check the weather Because you, you, you look at it and if you look at it from, like weathercom, it doesn't tell the story. And the other thing too is you, even as the day starts, you really don't know how it unfolds, and the experience of what it's like in transition is totally different than when you're out on the race course. So, yeah, just expected to be crazy windy and expected to be crazy hot, but but, man, it unfolds. And even as we race and even as you look at the weather, it is just so different. You just don't know. Until you're in it, you have no clue. And it can be different, like we experienced last year. It's different if you're an hour behind somebody or three hours behind them. So the weather and those trade winds, is just it's, it's crazy.

Speaker 1: 16:47

Yeah, it's an incredible place, but I mean cheers to all the girls racing Good luck by racing, but it's going to be exciting to see because the field is phenomenal.

Speaker 2: 16:55

It really is. And so you know, and even when we did it he kind of hoped for it. But I mean, I hope it's hot and I hope it's windy Right All the wind, man, you got to have all the Kona. You want that full experience. Yeah, yeah, dude you do. Last year was a little bit lighter on the winds. I remember looking over to the side like, hey, hey, hey, hey, we came here for like where's the winds?

Speaker 1: 17:17

Yeah, and I'll never forget. So the first time that you and I went to Kona was in 14.

Speaker 2: 17:22

Yeah, right, and it was hot, that was that was a wind, that was windy, that was of all times we've been there, that was the windiest.

Speaker 1: 17:30

Well, I'm going to say a story. So in 2014, I just remember being hot, I remember being just oppressive and hot, yeah. And then in 2015, I went back and and it was less hot but by the trade winds coming in, you know, you got to that value on the bike with that, with that resort is yeah, the trade winds come across, there were.

Speaker 2: 17:54

I thought that was the opposite. I thought we had it in 2014,. Then you got crazy hot in 2015. Well, 2015 was like the see. What happens is a fries brain cells. See a fries brain cells. See a fries brain cells. See a fry of the eggs. It fries the brain cells between the two of us, god knows.

Speaker 1: 18:07

It may have been that way, but either in 14 or 15, it was crazy hot, and in 14, in 14, 15, we actually had some rain.

Speaker 2: 18:15

Yeah, that was 14. 14, we had a little bit lighter, we had a little bit of cloud cover.

Speaker 1: 18:21

Okay so a little sprinkle. See, it was a very different experience.

Speaker 2: 18:24

You know how I remember because I didn't go to 2015 with you and you were like, man, 2015 was so hot. I was like, dude, 2014 was hot. What do you mean? He's like, oh, we had it easier in 2014. And I was like what? And then we went together last year.

Speaker 1: 18:37

I was like, oh, that's what you mean, but it was funny because I was talking to a local there after my experience in 2015, which my run wasn't as good and he said well, how'd it go the other day? And I was like, well, you know, not me, it was next day. So how did it go yesterday? Well, it was fine. How did it go? He said you know, last year I had a great day. He goes. Well, what was the deal? I said I guess you're right, you know, last year it wasn't so hot, but the winds were crazy, but this year it was just relentless and hot, and this, this is so why and God, it didn't have many teeth in the front. He smiled and said Mama Kona's a bitch.

Speaker 2: 19:15

Yeah, she is, she sure is. Oh man, yeah, so.

Speaker 1: 19:21

I hope.

Speaker 2: 19:21

I hope it's windy and hot and I hope everybody does well and it'll be interesting to see this. It'll be interesting to see it, man. It's. It's fun to watch, fun to watch the women perform, but it's, man, is it fun when there's a lot of, you know, parity across the, across the athletes?

Speaker 1: 19:34

It's going to be gangbusters. So the second thing is you know we're doing this marathon prep, right? I think the focus of the podcast for the last four, six weeks has been been running, running, running. Yeah, and I don't know if you guys pay attention to the running community, but there is some ridiculous times coming out.

Speaker 2: 19:54

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 19:55

And the running is insane and there's just some insane stuff about it. Yeah, so the women's marathon was broken. Two hours and 11 minutes yeah, that's incredibly fast. Well, in Chicago, last weekend, the men's, the men's so the women's marathon was broken. The three or four weeks ago maybe in Berlin, yeah, I'm not exactly sure where it was, but last weekend, men's in Chicago, kelvin uh Kiptum, from from from Kenya, 21 years old, yeah, he ran two hours and 39 seconds and broke and broke the world record by like 40 seconds.

Speaker 2: 20:40

And you point out his back half. What was his back half marathon? Yeah, so that's 435 pace for 26.2 miles yeah.

Speaker 1: 20:48

Yeah, okay, so his first half, first half marathon, was one hour and 48 seconds. Yeah, his back half marathon was 5950. Gosh, his last mile was 4912.

Speaker 2: 21:03

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1: 21:04

So here's a 21 year old Kenyan runner who's run three marathons. His slowest marathon is two hours one minute and 50 seconds.

Speaker 2: 21:14

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 21:16

And he just said you know, world record, yeah.

Speaker 1: 21:18

So we're all interested in how he trains, because if he's if he, if he's, if he's, if he's out there setting the world record, he can teach us something. Right? Yeah, he's fast, but obviously his, his coaches and they have some insight how to make the fastest marathon in the world. Yeah, so I, as an orthopedic surgeon, and you, as a chiropractor, are going to have some real concerns with this. Yeah, because his, he and his coach just put out that he runs 18 to 25 miles almost every day at marathon pace.

Speaker 1: 21:52

That's well. The pace he was training at was 450. Yeah, 18 to 25 miles at 450 almost every day.

Speaker 1: 22:01

Yeah, okay, so that's 180 miles a week at 2500 meters of altitude? Yeah, right, and so we've been. We've been talking about the hubway is to have purpose with your workout and make sure you rest and recover. So your next workout is okay. So you asked this. This 21 year old kid, when he rest coach, says we were going to allow him to rest when he gets tired. He's specifically marathon trained for two and a half years and he's yet to get tired. Yeah, he takes no off days no rest days.

Speaker 2: 22:38

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 22:39

So we're going to see a flurry of people thinking they can run 180 miles a week at their marathon pace. Yeah, with no rest. Yeah, because this, this 21 year old who has the most incredible low impact stride you've ever seen. Yeah, you can run a 412. The last mile is doing this.

Speaker 2: 23:00

Yeah 21 year old, freaking nature, physiology, perfect mechanics. Yeah, you know it's. It's amazing, right? Yeah, you got to have that it's. It's as much of a pre-show as having two heads to have his ability, but but because it's so successful, everybody's going to. Yeah, oh, and that's going to be a hot mess.

Speaker 1: 23:17

They're going to jump on board, yeah and so. So here's a guy and I hate to say it, but it's 21 year old, kenyon runner. In my opinion, my opinion means nothing in Kenyon runners is going to be short and sweet. Yeah, I mean he may break that two hour mark, but his career is going to be short.

Speaker 2: 23:37

Yeah, but is is is that comet burning so bright worth it to have it all in a short amount? And it clearly might be, because I mean, good Lord, it might be like that four minute mile being broken to get under two hours, which seems. I mean, they had that sub two project but they had so much pacing and so much like sort of like assistance along with it to truly do it in a race and do it man. He showed that like he'd ran the back half. I mean, you know that dude, you know how we're wired. He's wired the same way we are. He's looking at it going. Oh, I left 40 seconds on the table on that first half or 26 miles, but but at that pace, like you just said, that pace each second is like holy crap 12 at the end.

Speaker 1: 24:17

Yeah, he had stuff left.

Speaker 2: 24:18

Yeah, yeah, yeah For 12. Yeah, oh my gosh, I love it. We were talking about that and we'd both seen it. That meme that's out there of like you know what it's like to run at 412 pace and he's smiling at the end for 26.2 miles and the dude me running 412 pace for a quarter mile and he's passed out and like Med's there to help him.

Speaker 1: 24:40

I hope I have my new partner. I just think it's an incredible talent, but he's special.

Speaker 2: 24:47

Yeah, he's special, he's special yeah.

Speaker 1: 24:49

But you ain't special. So if you try to ride, if you try to run 180 miles a week, that you're ready to run your marathon, you're probably going to break down.

Speaker 2: 24:55

You might not but I'm just saying yeah, no, that's a good thing to point out, because that's just going to go out there and and people are going to adopt it because it leads to success. Therefore, that person, who's an elite level athlete, who's 21 years old and who's just a freaking nature, yeah, so, so be careful, right, be careful.

Speaker 1: 25:13

And another thing I think is important to look at in the running community right now is the shoe issue has gotten just ridiculous.

Speaker 1: 25:21

Yeah, you're telling me about those like 86, right, right, so the woman who set the world marathon record is running in the new pro-evolved Adidas. Okay, they are 40% lighter than most racing shoes. Yeah, they are less than five ounces Right, and they're 500 bucks a piece. For a pair yeah, and apparently I have not bought a pair, but apparently there's a note in the box that says good for one marathon and a few training runs leading up to the marathon. So you're going to spend 500 bucks for a pair of shoes. You're going to get one race in and a few training runs in.

Speaker 2: 26:05

Yeah, wow, that better. That race better be paying your mortgage if you're going to let do the exact.

Speaker 1: 26:12

Either you need an Adidas sponsor and have 18 pairs. Are you crazy? Yeah, 500 bucks for a pair of shoes for one time use.

Speaker 2: 26:22

Yeah, so I heard about that. It says it on that one side yeah, and if you flip it over on the other side, it says sucka, right, sucka.

Speaker 1: 26:31

But apparently Adidas only made 550 pair and they sold out immediately. Oh my gosh, and now they're out there on eBay or whatever. Then you're looking at for like more than that. Yeah, because you keep people stockpiled.

Speaker 2: 26:46

Yeah, it's to me. I feel guilty when buying, like you know, the carbon plated shoes for 250. Right, but at least you can race a season in those, you can get 150 miles and those, apparently, and it's look like that with the way we used them, so you use them, and they'll usually last me two years, right? So that is sort of like should I be doing it? But 500 bucks from my race, one use God. I'll run a little slower, that's all right.

Speaker 1: 27:13

I'm good and as triathletes, we're always quick to adopt.

Speaker 2: 27:17

Yeah, for sure.

Speaker 1: 27:19

And if some professionals doing it, we're going to be all in. So as these professionals are putting water bags in their kits, so they're more arrow in the front. You know age groupers are adopting that yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1: 27:31

A friend of mine told me this past week that he saw a podcast with Laila. Yeah, you know Sam Laila who just won. He won Nice, yeah, the equivalent of Conor for women, and his dad is his coach. His dad's been his coach forever and he said one of his keys to swimming was swimming with rocks in his hand.

Speaker 1: 27:53

So I was laughing and I was joking with this guy. I said this year Roker's going to come out with a right-handed rock for a hundred bucks and you're going to be able to get a left-handed rock for 50 swim rocks. That's hilarious. So as we adopt, we can adopt things, but you just got to be realistic.

Speaker 2: 28:10

It reminds me a little something right? How about those ankle weights I do? It led to a broken hip. Yeah, so, moose, at some point I can't remember where we got it from there's a theory that if you put ankle weights while you're cycling, that it would help with I don't know what, maybe help tighten your hip flexor.

Speaker 1: 28:27

It did, yeah, Tighten my hip flexors so much I was out for six months with it. So I was. As our lead in the podcast is we're quick adopters, lab rats.

Speaker 2: 28:39

Yeah, that's fun man, very, very long. Yeah, some right, some are not keepers, right, some you don't keep.

Speaker 1: 28:46

But so I've got to get some rocks from my hands and I got to find out. I got to get some money for these shoes I want to wear once.

Speaker 2: 28:51

That's hilarious. So the rock thing makes you think of, like, if you can dodge a wrench, you can dodge a ball Right, if you can swim with rocks, you can swim normal, absolutely, yeah, so it's interesting to run with me.

Speaker 1: 29:02

So, and the other interesting thing, truly interesting thing, is we're likely going to see a new triathlon race series. So, as Iron man is really struggling, I think, yeah, pto, the professional triathlon organization, has really come out with a new idea. There's there's nothing out there yet, but they claim in October, which is now, they're going to come out with this new race series. Yeah, super exciting, I think, because the, they have partnered with World Triathlon and they, they say in 2024 that they're going to have eight to 10 international events, qualifiers and then have a world championship race.

Speaker 1: 29:45

Yeah, and the PTO Distances in Trigging to me, because it's a hundred K total, right, so it's a 2k swim, 80k bike and an 18k run. Yeah, so that's 1.25 mile swim, 50 mile bike ride and 10 mile run. Yeah, so it's interesting, did it? Interesting, interesting, did this. And they're putting big money in the In the series for the pros. So I would assume that they kind of do what they did in Milwaukee this past year. They have a have a pro race, an age group race, but that's it has intriguing. So it looks like pto is stepping up and gonna go head to head.

Speaker 2: 30:27

That's I mean and what I mean. There's a void there. I mean I may as drop the ball and and this is like we were talking about this like it's a fun, intriguing distance. It's a blend of the the endurance point part, but it's also a lot more pacing. Yeah, it's, it's more Fan-friendly there. Multiple laps right so the spouses can in the family, can have a good time seeing you. It's shorter, it's not like an all-day thing, so you're not taking a whole day. You can still go out to dinner in whatever place you are, you get to see the pros.

Speaker 2: 30:57

I'm I'm really intrigued by that and I'm it's. It's interesting because I was looking for next year, because I'm just sort of like what are we doing next year? What sort of Iron man look like? And if you look at not or not Iron man North America, it looks sort of like it. It looks like a void it's.

Speaker 2: 31:12

I couldn't really figure out what they were doing. And then, and then I saw in this. I saw that they're like well, we're doing a series next year and guess what we're gonna do? We're gonna have 1.7 million for the pros, because we appreciate the pros, and we're gonna have a series and and it's like that's not good. But dude, you are late to the party and it's not it's, you are now just trying to You're, you're trying to trick us, right? You didn't really kind of give a crap until somebody else was a competitor. So competition is good, yeah, and it'd be interesting to where they go. But but man, I don't know. I I mean women racing Kona today is just spectacular. They deserve the whole full day. It's gonna be amazing. But after this weekend where does it go?

Speaker 1: 31:54

what happens next?

Speaker 2: 31:55

what happens next and and what decisions do they make? And Last I heard messick was out, but what I read was messick was talking about this new thing that they're implementing. So what's, what's this guy doing? What are what are they doing? I'm interested in the PTO side of stuff. I think it's really pretty cool. So, yeah, I'll be keeping an eye out for where those races are and that might be part of what we look at scheduling.

Speaker 1: 32:17

So and I'm kind of the same as you. I Think I don't my own. I don't have much desire to race Iron man right now. Yeah, I just don't. I think, yeah, physically, every time you go out there, it puts a hurting on you. Yeah, and I think it's Awesome and we've had some fantastic experiences. Yeah, I've had some fantastic, fantastic days, but I think it takes his toll. How many is too many? I don't know, it depends on your body right, we've been doing it for a long.

Speaker 2: 32:43

We've been doing it for a long time. So I Look at it is like a forced great opportunity, right. It's sort of like lost it. So I sort of don't know what that stretch goal is, but I otherwise probably wouldn't have ventured out to something else. But now, now that that isn't and it's had a wonderful place in our lives and it still may have you a wonderful place in people's lives in the future too.

Speaker 2: 33:05

So it's because it's like that for me, because it's like that for you, may not be for somebody else, but with it, with the change, even though I sort of was like bummed about it yeah, I also more in that part a little bit but then realize it like, oh well, that opens up other opportunity to explore and to do different things and it's it is tough on the body. We see things with cardiovascular stuff for long-term health and and and now to be a little bit shorter, a little bit more family friend, like it's pretty cool. So anytime life seems to kind of be disruptive to your routine or what you pictured to be like, like what your normal is right, and we all usually kind of like throw our toys out of the column. That first happens, we throw our little tantrum. If you look at it, it's like a wonderful opportunity to explore something different. I mean, you went on a boat, you got away from work for two weeks and each day you got to explore some new place that if you didn't Change your setting you wouldn't have seen as much as you did.

Speaker 2: 33:58

So you know I'm intrigued by this, I'm at peace with it and I think you know it'll be interesting to see where Iron man goes and who's to say that it doesn't spark something online. But I'm very intrigued by PTO. I think it's wonderful for the athletes. It's great to see that. You know the only thing down is like it's PTO is wonderful but you don't have that long course feel of it. So as the athletes get older, this is geared towards maybe, if you're a professional athlete, more your mid to younger athlete. I think then you do the you know, the 38 year old, 40 year old, I don't know, I think I asked.

Speaker 1: 34:34

I just agree with that a little bit. Yeah, because I think that distance allows you to race more. Yeah, be healthy.

Speaker 2: 34:41

That's true.

Speaker 1: 34:42

There's some pros that could race all eight races, or, yeah, you know our ten races, because this takes him three and a half hours.

Speaker 2: 34:50

Yeah. I just see the run speeds man, I'm like holy crap, it's amazing yeah but you only get a few good bites of the Iron man, right.

Speaker 1: 34:57

So if you have, if you, even if you're a pro and you race two or three or four Iron Man's a year, that's a big deal, yeah. But this, I think, is intriguing to all levels. Yeah, because I think, because of the PTO money, I think you're gonna get some of the fastest crap short course guys coming up, yeah, and and then even the older athletes that take a beating are gonna be able to race six, seven, eight times.

Speaker 2: 35:24

Yeah, they can make a livelihood out of it, absolutely yeah. Yeah, it's, it's hard and interesting. We're in a time of transition, right, we were truly. It's been a long time since Shatlon's in that, that transition and you really feel it. And these next five years, how they play out, how the next two years play out. But be interesting to see where it goes. And, yeah, I don't know either way, it's, it's all about the eighth that get a life beyond and be able to get off the boat and run to the castle, right, but, man, it's nice to have some stretch goals in between in there.

Speaker 1: 35:54

So I think you have to have stretch goals, and we've done podcasts on this before. You need something short term, midterm, long term. Yeah to make training fun. Yeah, totally you know, and that purpose of training can be run focus from focus, bike focus, strength focused. It can change.

Speaker 1: 36:13

Yeah but it's gonna be very interesting as we October, november and December we start making making goals for next year. We have a, you know, a hub system where we make short term, long term goals. What we're gonna be I can tell you. Right now I have no idea.

Speaker 2: 36:31

You know, maybe that's some of the share too is like we don't know, right, we don't know, and it To a lot of people. You gotta know, I gotta have a goal. But I would argue that you got to have a goal that you want to do. I could, I could fake it and say this one I want to do for next year, but I Intrinsically am not like excited by it. I want to be excited by it, yeah, and scared, and scared a little bit right and scared a little bit of challenges, boundaries, but, but I want to be excited by it.

Speaker 2: 36:54

So, don't do the things you think you have to do. Do things you really want to do. I mean, we do this stuff for fun, man. No, no, it's a healthy outlet. So so, yeah, it's okay if you're, if you're like us and you don't know, that's totally okay. Keep, keep doing your daily thing and make some smaller, maybe many goals along the way. But you wait for that to strike and, honestly, they usually happen on our board meeting, trail runs, when you got clarity of mind. So, yeah, yeah, it'll be interesting this winter and and yeah, lots of fun things to come around and let's see what PTO does. And good luck to all the ladies running and Participate in Ironman Kona and thank God, we're not there.

Speaker 2: 37:32

Oh baby, we're put the AC out a little bit higher today just to just to watch it with a blanket I'm gonna stand out in the cold rain. Yeah, 50, 55 degree you know what we can do after. Let's go get an IV, like last time too, so we can make sure we get the full experience of our one-year anniversary. Start cold, get blazing hot, and it with an IV, I just.

Speaker 1: 37:55

Good luck, ladies. So this week our focus is gonna be on what kind of stuff you should be doing around your running, not the true running itself.

Speaker 1: 38:09

Yeah so you know we've both been focused on marathon training right, and I'm Terrible about having a certain amount of time to run, and I run in the morning, so it's usually coffee out the door. Run, get back dressed off to work, right, and Historically, I get stiffer and stiffer, and stiffer as my, as my mileage gets up and let me give you my business card, exactly Exactly how you been but, but, but.

Speaker 1: 38:40

But I think events, from thinking over the last four or six weeks about what I've been doing around my run, that's made a huge difference. So what I'd like to do is have and have an open discussion on running consistency and what you do before your run, during your run and post run to allow for that consistency, because what we know is Consistency leads to success. Yeah, the consistency usually leads to being able to reach your goals and being healthy and fit. Yeah, as soon as you're not consistent and the wheels fall off and you're broken and you and you you can't run, then Games over.

Speaker 2: 39:26

Yeah so.

Speaker 1: 39:28

I've been doing some focused thinking and I'm a lab rat, right, and I'll try certain things and and just change that, that one thing to see if it makes a difference. In my opinion, what I've been doing before the run, during the run and after the run is making a Difference as I build up miles and in this marathon build.

Speaker 2: 39:49

Yeah, to your point of like, it's not the one big thing that you do, it's the small things that you do and that you do consistently right. And I think what we may find out as we go through this stuff is it's it's not a huge time push, it's just, it's doing the little things consistently right now, looking for that one big thing you got to do and be overwhelmed by it.

Speaker 1: 40:08

So, yeah, well, so Pre-run, I mean we. So I run in the morning, right? Well, during the week that's not true. I run weekends to, but, but just not not quite quite as early. So Usually what I do is I have an hour run, I'll figure out what time I have to leave for work and I'll back up my Schedule right when. Well, now, I'm leaving time before the run and and after run to do certain things. So my run is probably 10 minutes shorter. But my Opinion, my run is better and more effective, right?

Speaker 1: 40:45

So, for instance, old me would drink coffee with MCT oil, which is that which is that which is a fat, right, and I would be out the door and that run could have been a harder Tempo run, which means I'm burning glucose. Right, I have fat on board, but I'm burning glucose. That number, that run can be a steady-state run, which, if you have, if you have, you have glucose on. What made it to have fat on board, you're probably okay. But there was no pre-run hydration, right, and no Pre-run thought of mobility, okay. So over the last three or four weeks I have started Same coffee, same MCT oil, but drinking one Gatorade zero before Hydration, because when you get up in the morning you're dehydrated. So there's a pre-run ritual that includes Hydration right now and I know that's not earth shattering, but so it's not new stuff, but how many people are doing that they're?

Speaker 1: 41:48

they're Little shortcuts to make sure that you're constantly taking care of your body right, and if it's gonna be a a higher Tempo session, and I know for me, tempo wise, if I get up above a certain heart rate and pace, I'm burning sugar, right, and I know I've got certain amounts. So I'll take some kind of car before, yeah, to read the engine, if you will, mm-hmm. So there is a pre-run nutritional check for me. That is to now includes hydration and some kind of carb if it's gonna be a Higher intensity run, yeah, yeah, smart.

Speaker 1: 42:24

The second thing is I'm now using the Nike Myrtle Program, which is my RTL, and it's basically a hip mobilization and so it takes me 10 minutes to run through this hip mobilization. That has made a phenomenal difference, yeah, and I think the reason for that is I Must I get out of bed, I must if, old man, yeah, I start to run and I think, well, I'll just, I'll just warm up the first mile and I never, really, never, really Loosen up, yeah, but if I take, take 10 minutes and do my clam shells, my lateral leg raises my Kneeling hurtlers, my kneeling donkey, kick my kneeling fire hydrants and then standing hurtlers and standing leg swings. I have now Activated and got my hip flexion and pelvic stability going and it's made all the difference in the world.

Speaker 1: 43:18

Yeah and it's made all the difference in the world in my run and in my post reese my post run Soreness in the clinic. Yeah so just going through a very simple 10 minute routine After hydrating and taking maybe some carbs, has changed my morning run and I'm running better.

Speaker 2: 43:38

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 43:39

So I think what you do before your run is crucial.

Speaker 2: 43:44

Dude, it doesn't make you wish like, even though we have to as we get older. We got to do the small things consistently if we want to do this for longevity. But as you do it, don't you wish you wouldn't been doing it back then. So as you do these small things, you'll scary to see the value in it now, but you're gonna see the value you missed previously.

Speaker 1: 44:00

I missed it, yeah, and you know, and I was young, I could go out. Now I would warm up after a mile or so, yeah, but in my, my senses, now when I wake up, my muscles are tight Right, not only tight your at the restful positions, in Basically, sort of this modified fetal position.

Speaker 2: 44:19

What is that? That's flexion of your hip right, so you don't have hip extension and the hips sitting in the front of its socket. So to warm up the hips and have access to use it or lose it. Right, your body adapts and that's the way you're supposed to sleep, so don't sleep somewhere different. But if you're gonna suddenly throw three times body weight into your hip joint, yeah, wake it up, man, it doesn't take very much time. But you know that allows you to to function better, which then takes those little Microtraumas that happen to you and reduce them. But even more motivating, as you're going to perform better. I think that's the more motivating thing and every single single session is better.

Speaker 1: 44:53

Yeah, so the way I follow my fitness is what's my heart rate for a given pace? Yeah, so my morning sessions are better. Yeah, and that may be because I don't have as much bike fatigue now, because I'm working more running but Also feel better and I'm less stiff. So I think what you do before your run is critical. Do you have any pre-run stuff that you go through? I?

Speaker 2: 45:20

mean it's pretty similar. I don't quite do all the Myrtle stuff. I do, probably, a dynamic warm up. It takes me about 90 seconds to two minutes that I run through, but the Myrtle program is just a wonderful Systemized place to do it. I do very much kind of similar.

Speaker 2: 45:32

My mind's a little bit different because I'm not always up super early. You get your super early in the morning. I usually get mine like during lunch break. But I need to do the same thing where, if it's a fat adaptive run, you know to use a MCT or a medium chain triglyceride you know, to help with your fat adaption is fantastic. But if I need some sort of quality workout, you know for us we're in clinic life, or for you you're in surgery and we forget to eat, and if I don't just at least get something, the quality of my session is down. So I've got to make an easy access sort of fuel and and so. For me in clinic sometimes that's just like I'll have an RX bar or I'll have, you know, a quick little Overnight oak thing that I made. So I need to make sure that if I, if I want to get the value out of it, I make sure I have some sort of fuel in, because that that's hurt my workouts from before. But the dynamic warm up for sure. I mean just to open it up right, use it or lose it. You don't. You don't have access to that space, and it doesn't take long. It can be anywhere from 90 seconds to an eight to ten minute program and it's hugely valuable. So I would say that those are really pretty much the same. I would say that like and I think we made both this.

Speaker 2: 46:43

I don't want to speak for you, but there's a. You know we're not promoting any certain product, but one of the products that's a mainstay in our world is is generation. You can't, so you can is fantastic. So if I'm going on a longer steady run that's going to be over 90 minutes you can something that I like our trail weekends. I wake up early in the morning and I just, you know, have coffee, but I also shake up and the you can that I use because we're not going super hard and that is kept me sustained on some of the longer stuff and it also doesn't spike my, my, my, my glycogen levels immediately. So that's been a really great resource. But no, I think you hit the nail on the head man, and we had a podcast previously and I can't remember the episode.

Speaker 2: 47:23

But habits, so like, if you're interested in doing this and you steal from us or create some of yours, have some mobility, right? Yeah, make sure that you're fueled for whatever the session is, is it, is it long, steady, right? You're more fat adaptive. If it's hot, heavy, then you need glucose man, you need the fuel. So sugar's not a bad thing, so I make sure I'm prepared for that, and you know whether it's like generating you can, whether it's a quick, little low maintenance meal to be able to pop in the other product. I would say that I use a lot is element, right? Especially, you know, using Gateway zero in the mornings, right? So in the mornings I have one packet of element which is a thousand milligrams of sodium. I'm a high concentration sweater, so I'm not, and those that aren't high concentration take a half a pack and I put it in like a 30 ounce yeti and I drink it on my way to work.

Speaker 1: 48:15

That's that's pre-run for you.

Speaker 2: 48:18

That's pre-run, but it's it's pre-day really. So I've kind of gotten the habit of like that's pre-day Because I need that, and then If it's like a midday run, I try to drink to thirst throughout the day if I do that ahead of time. But we do so much talking and so much from next person to next person to next person, I do have to remember to drink, but that's it. Man, we both have some hard stuff and hydration. You go get what panel's done and it ends up being a dehydration issue. It's an overlooked thing and it's not because you just have hot weather. You know, if we are constantly sort of like doing something, then it's hard to keep up with. So I think the hydration component you bring up is something that we overlook, for even the people who think that they do it Right.

Speaker 1: 49:05

And so I think that's super important. So, as we think about pre-run you made a great point Every well, no, I'll say it, every single run has a purpose. Is that purpose? Tempo, pace Is that purpose, that adaption, is that purpose study, and you can pre-run for that specific type of workout, right, and so that to me means hydration, mobility and nutrition.

Speaker 2: 49:36

Yeah, and I'll make a little side tangent on this that mobility that you bring up, that doesn't take very long, from a clinical side of it is just so silly, important, right. So hydration and lack of mobility builds up like I'm not saying it's a perfect analogy, but it's actually pretty close. It's built up like waking right. You just slowly, slowly build up tension that's relatively invisible because you just don't notice. It happens so slow and there's really don't feel anything until all of a sudden one day you really start to feel something and then it becomes a problem and it's what you do early that shows up later. So, like a lot of these are pedestrian injuries that we see, they go. Well, what happened on that run? And it was like, wasn't that run Right? And then the other broke the camel's back and we look at it.

Speaker 2: 50:19

And running doesn't take a tremendous amount of range of motion. It takes hip extension, it takes ankle foot extension, it takes a little bit of thoracic mobility. But that hip extension, especially when you get up in the morning, you've been in inflection. That hip mobility goes in the Myrtle program. So wonderful program, man, look it up. Myrtle, right, myrtl, I think. Right, right, myrtl.

Speaker 1: 50:40

And it's super easy to run through. If you do 10 reps, do all the series. It takes about 10 minutes.

Speaker 2: 50:47

Yeah, and there's a saying motion is lotion man. You're lubricating those joints, you're opening up you need to open up the space before you use it. You climb out of bed, you start to run. Not only does it feel sort of icky, but it also is not letting you access your full range of motion. There's under joint compression. So that noise that you feel is not only sort of just kind of uncomfortable that we just all deal with, it's disruptive to your long-term health. And it's not that one little micro trauma, right, it's this series of thousands of micro traumas that happen over time. So don't downplay that and start to get into habit right.

Speaker 2: 51:21

Habits are hard to form. Give yourself four to six weeks, allow yourself to have some misses, but try to make that dynamic warm up. Whether it's Myrtl or whether it's something that you worked up, that you looked up that works for you, whatever allows you to execute it, stick with it. But it's the little things. Yeah, like you said in the beginning, it's not some big thing and it shouldn't take a huge amount of time. We're all strapped for time.

Speaker 2: 51:41

That 10 minutes most people will look at it and say why? That's the 10 minutes I need for running, so that 10 minutes allowed that run to be better. So your session is better by being 10 minutes less, but putting that 10 minutes in investing in yourself. Right, and you see it, dude, you are a lab rat, right, you have lots of constants in your life and, yes, it's your opinion, but it's a highly, highly, highly, highly qualified opinion, or it should be. Yeah, and the evidence is clear too, because it's dynamic warm ups that I think everybody should stick in. So hydration and fueling and mobility I think you're spot on with that.

Speaker 1: 52:15

So that's pre run, yeah. Now how about during run? And I've been looking at this as well. I am guilty of doing long runs on the weekends with nothing.

Speaker 2: 52:26

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 52:27

Right. So we, we, we go out. I think we ran, ran two hours today and in the past I would use the U-CAM. You know, you know CAM before, but when I was wearing the glucose glucose glucose monitor, what I found was U-CAM was fantastic for a sustained release of glucose for one hour and then right. So in my very simple math brain, if I'm going to run two hours and I have a sustained release of glucose for an hour and the MCT in your crossbook, send that a little bit. You need something in the back half or you will fall off.

Speaker 2: 53:04

Yeah, right.

Speaker 1: 53:06

And so at some point during your run, if it's over an hour, you need to do something during your run to to to promote fueling. Yeah, and it doesn't matter what you do you, you and I don't get any money from from any, any companies but if you're going, if you're running, you need 30 to 60 grams of carbs an hour, right, and if it, if it, if it's an upper level and your stomach can take it, it's 60 to 90 grams per hour, yeah, so you got to figure that out and I've got a gel that I'm using now that I like, because it's easy. It's 30 grams, yeah, and I know that can take it at an hour. I can take it at an hour and 45 minutes and I'm thinking that that's helping. So, so what I'm doing during the run is trying to maintain my glucose level, so I don't dig a big hole.

Speaker 2: 53:56

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 53:57

Hydration is the same way. You and I are both very, very guilty of going out on long runs and being a camel Right we don't need fluid, we don't need anything. And then, after two and a half hours, you try to suck down eight you know eight quarts why? Because you have a deficit. Well, when you have a deficit, you're not going to benefit as much as you could if you sustained your hydration for that run or you sustained your glucose level through that run. So you dig less of a hole if you're paying attention to nutrition during your run.

Speaker 2: 54:31

Yeah, and that's got again going back to that cumulative effect. It's got a huge cumulative effect. It's not only just during that. It's how cool it can be. Can you recover and not lose, right? It's simple savings account you got to get in what you put out. It's hard to keep up with that.

Speaker 1: 54:45

And so and another thing, there's other stuff you can do during your run. I think that helps with consistency and helps with longevity. One is a warmup.

Speaker 2: 54:55

Yeah, right.

Speaker 1: 54:57

So the first six or seven minutes or eight minutes or whatever, whatever you consider your warmup, you're running steady, you're running easy, easy, getting your body, getting your mind right, and you should mind. This is not my opinion. You should not go right into. I got to be at marathon pace, yeah. Now the flip side of that if you're trying to run off the bike at a certain pace, then you got to be all in, yeah, right. But if you're going out on a run from a fresh start, if you've done your mobility stuff, that pre-part of your run can be less yeah. If you haven't done it, you probably more. But you need some kind of warmup during your run yeah, you need as warm down during your run.

Speaker 1: 55:39

So if you're a guy like me who tends to push the time limit as soon as your run is done, you run in the house, you shower, you eat and you're out the door. If you've spent the last five minutes of your run, jogging, walking, stretching and getting your heart rate down, that's going to go a long way so you can nutrition during the run the way you do your run, so you have a purpose for that run. But a little bit of time before, a little bit of time after should be warming up and warming down. That, I think, leads to consistency.

Speaker 2: 56:13

That's huge. And think about your training like you're ramping into the training and you're ramping down to the training and I find the same thing you did Me even talk about this is like the warm down really doesn't need to be much more than like five minutes. I mean it's just kind of coming down, easing off the gas pedal. Part of that warm down for me is after I shower. I just have a quick little restorative stretch. I'm not trying to stretch aggressively at that point, I'm just trying to get back what I had lost because those muscles are a little bit tight. But now that that's huge. Just a little bit goes a long way. And if you've done your dynamic warm up, your warm up, like you said, doesn't really take that much time to kind of just ease into it.

Speaker 2: 56:48

We've talked a lot about heart rate training and you know whether you go by power or pace or heart rate and for those that go by heart rate, a lot of times what they're trying to do is just get up to their heart rate. In reality is the heart rate takes a little bit of time to get up and get to it anyway. So you're overreaching with that. So you know if you're training by heart rate or you're training by pace, just ease into it. And if you want to like have an impressive thing, then on the back, third, somewhere in there you know, put a little bit of peppery stuff if you want some peppery stuff, but don't do it like right in the beginning or force it up or overreach, because I think a lot of people do that, because they think, oh, I got to hit my zone. Hey, at the end of this I want to see my heart rate zone all in zone two. Well, it takes 10 minutes for your heart to just kind of ease up into it.

Speaker 1: 57:31

So zone two is heart rate and pace right and so so. So so early on it's not pace right. I mean I mean you stick. I'm sorry it is pace so early on. Your zone two pace is a slate. Eight minutes, eight minutes per mile. Right, your heart rate may be an easy zone.

Speaker 2: 57:52

Yeah Well, that's why you know, without getting back in that vortex, that's why we always talked about like, which metric should you go by and be like use all of them. Everything's got an advantage and disadvantage right Heart rate's delayed, so you know you've got to be in your and, honestly, be on the lower part of that pace as you ease into it and watch the heart rate start to climb into it. And then you know you're starting to learn your and use those as gauges as opposed to like your, you're just going everything by it. You know you'd be intuitive with your body.

Speaker 2: 58:15

Sometimes there's days I don't know about you. There's days I start or run and I'm just like ugh. And so instead of five minute warm up, I've got 10 to 15 minutes of warm up. Why? Because I'm in tune with my body. I'm just sort of like respecting what my body's asking for Instead of pushing into it. I might have done a really good warm up with my dynamic warm up, and then I go into the run and my hips are a little bit tired, but I'm like, nope, but do my five minutes. I push into it and I'm not respecting what my body's telling me. So, and and every day is different, man. I struggle this with athletes that we coach sometimes is well, this session didn't feel great and go well. That's training. Not every session is going to feel great. You just got to kind of get used to that. So just be in tune with your body and respect it and take care of it and do the small things right. It's going to last you a lifetime, man, right.

Speaker 1: 58:58

So here's a very hard question for you as a coach. Okay, the last part of that that I think is super important for the run portion, for consistency is humble pie. The reason I say that is if your goal today is to run tempo and you're running eight eight hundreds and it is going abysmal.

Speaker 1: 59:24

You're not running well, you feel like crap, your heart rates to the roof, work stinks, home stinks and you're fried. Do you call today? Do you skip the last interval or do you put your nose to the grindstone? You just grind through it.

Speaker 2: 59:40

Yeah, so you're asking me, yeah, so I would tell you all the above man, right? So all the above, I mean I'm casting so right, we've made enough mistakes to help other people. I've done all three. Right, I've done all three. I don't know about you, but you know, as I get smarter and I have more evidence that when I have those times that I just take what's there, on the days that I can sort of just manage, I don't push the envelope, I just sort of take it If it's a, if it's subjectively supposed to be a certain, if I, if I can, if I can sort of hold that effort even though the pace is down, I'll sometimes hold that there's.

Speaker 2: 1:00:16

I'm guilty of pushing into things, that when my body's telling me to shut down and all honesty, your body's telling you that, hey, you're not ready for that today, and what I find is if you give yourself one night's sleep, the next day you might very likely be ready for it. So a lot of times in those, in those areas, I've learned to just turn it into a steady kind of zone two day. However, there's also days where you know, I've pushed into it and challenged myself to see kind of what I was able to do. And those are. Those are more for mental training days than they are physical, and I've certainly injured myself on those days when I've forced myself, when I was my body's telling me, dude, you are at your limit, you are at your capacity, and my brain goes Beagle mentality and I'm like I'm on the scent, I'm going to push it, and it leads to things that come back. So so, personally, I'm guilty of all three and athletes are guilty of all three. But I would tell you that if you aren't, if you're close to it and you're you're battling it, just do what you can in the moment. Right, and what that? What you can do is sort of just be in tune with your body. And if your body's screaming for the break, don't force it. Right. If your body's struggling with it, respect it and be like, hey, man, we're going to get what we can out of this today. And then, if it's, if you've got something building up and you feel like something's going to tear from the bone, then don't go through that, because something's going to tear from the bone.

Speaker 2: 1:01:35

Training is a series of cumulative overloads, right? So it's sort of that three strike. I go by the three strike rule and that happens three times in a row, you need to back off and give yourself a little bit of a break. But if you have one day where it's sort of like that and you manage it, however it does and it's a little blip in the radar, that's part of what training is, not every training you put.

Speaker 2: 1:01:54

You put on paper what the workout is and you think that it's. It's this linear line of progression and it's going to feel exactly the way it's supposed to and you're, you're going to hit that pace and crap, you might exceed it. There's plenty of days I go out there and I thought I was going to be able to hit a pace and I really struggled to be slower than that and that's, that's okay, it is what it is. So, but if it happens routinely, well then something's wrong with my training program. So you know I don't live and die, or I'm not defined by one, I don't push through things, or I've always told me I'm going to break. I'm not pushing through things when, mentally, I'm exhausted and I'm just digging the mental battery deep, deeper.

Speaker 1: 1:02:28

So but that's wisdom, right. So it's taken me a long time, a long time to not get. It might be a little bit of the swimmer mentality, you know the set's not not going very well. I'm not able to hold what I'm supposed to be holding on paper where I should think I mean my brain, I should be thinking I should be holding, and I double down. And more times than not in the past when I have doubled down, rarely do I, do I break through and have a great mental day and say I'm tough.

Speaker 1: 1:03:06

Most of the time, and I would say it's probably 99% of the time I've dug myself a hole. Yeah, and it's taken me more than two or three days to get out of that hole. Yeah, cause I was another way right To where. If I, if I had a little humble pie and I said today is not not a good day, I'm going to work on my gate, I'm going to work on a high cadence, I'm going to run steady state or I'm going to go to the shower, I'm going to go stretch cause it's not my day, one or two days of easiness you will find, if you respect that the next time you go out, you're smashing it because you actually have a breakthrough. Usually You've not dug yourself a hole. Yeah, you've been on that session and during that run. If that session is not going well, doesn't matter.

Speaker 2: 1:03:51

Yeah, you know, there's times we've done the trail runs, especially when we had a group, and there's plenty of times where I've walked or easy and cut it short and walk back because I was like I can't like my, my, this is just I'm, I'm work, this is taking too much effort from my brain and my body's not responding. It's time to just sort of go into the cave and lick some wounds and come out, and and what you tend to find is exactly what you said, which is like, not only do you do you recover and you come out of it. You usually see a breakthrough cause your body's telling you it's exhausted. So what do you need? Right, it's stress plus rest, equal success. And we forget about that rest. Your body's screaming for it. And if your body's screaming for it, it's because it's cumulative from your training and if you give it that space, it boosts up. If you dig into it again, you're heading into that overtraining syndrome. You know the psychology of it and I see this. I see one or two things and maybe you'll see it from a different perspective. I see, I see the athlete that's like well, I've got to stay on plan, I've got to stay on plan, I can't miss this. This is part of my plan and we would always argue that your plans and pencil man it's not in pen, but they are so committed to the plan that they're going to do it.

Speaker 2: 1:04:54

Then there's the other sort of athlete that's like well, I deserve to run this way. So that's why I really like your humble pie. I deserve. You said I was going to run at this pace, I deserve to run at that pace. So I've been doing everything right and I'm supposed to run there and that's just the way it is. And they either get mad or it's shaky to their confidence and you go. That's what training is.

Speaker 2: 1:05:16

Not every day is going to be like you don't deserve anything. We are working hard and we are progressing and we do like to see that that, like over time, we are progressing the right way. But that's if every day was guaranteed to you, what fun would this be, right, right, what fun If I knew when I went to a race and said you know what I've trained for X time, I'm going to run that time plus or minus two seconds. Right, I'm going to be doing the sport. Because I'd be like, oh right, yeah Right, perfect Toe line. And you know I prepared for it. I know everybody else has prepared for it. I'm going to challenge my limits and we're going to see and maybe it's going to be a great day, maybe it's going to be a challenging day. I learned the most about it myself on those challenging days. Yeah, you know it's easy to race when things are well, but you're right as far as like when it comes to when you're struggling like that almost always borderline, always nothing good comes from it. Nope.

Speaker 1: 1:06:04

Shut it down, yeah. So all all this pre and during and post run stuff is to build consistency. Yeah, and consistency is what brings success. Yeah. So if you have in trouble, it's not your day, I would tell you, take a little bite of humble pie and shut it down. And no, it's not your day. Yeah, Because in a couple of days it will be your day. But just be smart during the run. So I think, just to summarize what you can do for running during the run warm up, warm down, yeah, I think some kind of focused nutrition. If the workouts you know over 90 minutes or so, I think it's key to dig less of a hole and I think if the sessions not not not going like you think it's going to go, it's okay. Yeah, Shut it down.

Speaker 2: 1:06:54

Yeah, oh dude, totally yeah, and I think that's spot on. How about? How about after? What are you going to do after? So yeah, After two.

Speaker 1: 1:07:03

I'm usually during the week, hair on fire, running to work, start my day. But there's some great data out there that says nutrition after, within 30 minutes to an hour, is key and that that nutrition after needs to include carbohydrates, because you're at a glucose deficit likely and needs to include protein. So your new nutrition after your run needs to include carbohydrates, proteins. The reason you need protein is you're rebuilding or repairing muscle damage, yeah Right. So so you need, you know, after your run, the 34 or five minutes you need some kind of nutritional load. After your run, you need some kind of hydration load. And that's when I'm using the elements. So I tend to train in the morning and I'll reload with element during the day. And then the last thing is your stretch or you do, you know you do muscle activation stuff after your run, because after your run you're going to be, you can be tight in different sources. I think there's three things there. One's nutrition, you know. Two is doing, doing, doing doing your mobility stuff. And three is rest and recover.

Speaker 2: 1:08:10

Yeah, when do you do your mobility? When do you do your mobility stuff afterwards?

Speaker 1: 1:08:14

It's usually after work, yeah, yeah. So usually I'm, I'm, I'm hair on fire to work and I work all day, and then you've got me doing breast and hip mobility stuff, and I'm usually doing that at night and so if, if I have time, when I first come in after my run, directly after, I'll do that. I'm usually getting it in in twice a day, which is a complete new concept to me, because I just wasn't doing it before.

Speaker 2: 1:08:38

Yeah, yeah, it's a little little things right. So I'm there with you. You know it made me think of something during the run. I'll say afterwards and you've had the constant glucose monitor so I mean you've got more evidence to kind of tell me what's worked for you. But you know, the big thing is like within that 30, 60 minutes right after exercise, your cells are wide open, especially to get your sugars back. So it's the time to have some high glycemic new sugars. I'm not saying go eat donuts, but I'm saying like a donut, so it's not a bad time to have it right.

Speaker 2: 1:09:08

As Moose would say, eat your cookie first before the sandwich.

Speaker 1: 1:09:11

Yeah, and your taste buds with them are the most heightened.

Speaker 2: 1:09:14

Yeah, man, enjoy it, enjoy it. So afterwards I, just for convenience factor, I use liquid IV just because it comes with those little packets. So I like to have the sugars I used to use scratch. You had to use some noon stuff before. Those are all great, but just liquid IV, I think, tastes really good. It's got the sugars that I want. It's got 500 milligrams of sodium. So I use that. It's in the car or it's at work and I dump it in and I drink that and that is to restore the muscle glycogen, right.

Speaker 2: 1:09:42

So you know we think of sugars as the bad guy and it's really not. It's, it's, it's absolutely necessary, especially that fuel. It's your fuel, man, and your read and your, your body is open to absorbing it. Now You're going to absorb it more early, within that hour after you're done. So I make sure I get that in and that's why I use the liquid IV. And yeah, protein, super important, especially as you, your body, is going to start that repair process. The next two to three hours after a workout is when your body is going to really start to kind of like sort itself out and start that repair process. So so get protein in as well. The one thing I'd say with sugars is funny nowadays like sugars getting sort of this, your bad rap, and because we're over in a data with with sugars and lifestyle, so high fructose things like that, so we won't get into it, but but just sugars, that's a good time to get some high glycemic stuff in, and and when you're working out, like when you're actually in it. So if you go back to when you're in it, sugars right. So sugars are good. So the body is using that as a resource, whether that's your glucose, fructose, and there's different mixtures. But a lot of times we're told don't have sugars by themselves. Well, as you're exercising, insulin suppressed. So you had the constant glucose monitor and you can see how it affected your blood. And you can see how different gels the fascinating part we, at least, I thought was different gels affected you differently, absolutely. So it'd be nice for all of us to have that, but at the end of the day, we're talking 30 to 60 grams of glucose.

Speaker 2: 1:11:04

You don't have to have protein when you're working out. There's no real sort of support to say that there's any any value there. It is afterwards, though. Get it in afterwards, get your protein in afterwards, get your sugars in right afterwards and I prioritize that because that has everything to do in that window. Your body is wide open to absorbing all of that.

Speaker 2: 1:11:23

So I think that that is just absolutely, absolutely key and it's time to make sure that you don't skip on that. I mean, I think a lot of us do it. I mean, we're training for performance and we're training for your life, but at the same time, body composition, you want to restrict calories, and after you're done working out, you're usually not all that hungry. So you're sort of like well, I ran and I want to burn some calories, I'm just going to shove them all back in, but I would tell you that it's going to hit you later and the the ability for you to repair is is really important. And then, when it comes to mobility, I see this a lot and this is this is my opinion and, and from you know, from a clinic perspective when you're done running, I like to have just a light, easy, sort of like just a common sense, restorative stretch. So I use an example like we ran, we trail ran today, and I come home, I get out of the car, I kind of hobble out of the car a little bit and I take a shower and I just have a quick, easy stretch of, like my hip flexors and my my calves, not even for any sort of prolonged period of time, just 10, 15 seconds or so, just to get back what I had before it started.

Speaker 2: 1:12:25

Because after you traumatized muscles with training, they have a retractive component to it. So I'm just before before. They just sort of get normalized out. I just want to reset them, I want to give them back and repolarize those muscles. But I don't recommend for most people to do any sort of long stretching after they're done working out, because those muscles have been freshly traumatized, right. So I think about it like the glue isn't dry yet, right, the glue is just being put down. You're going to start pulling on muscles that have been traumatized because somebody told you to stretch after the first two to three hours after a workout. You know the best thing you can do get out of the way, right. Let those muscles start their rep, their, their restoration. Let them start their, their process of, of, of accounting for the damage and starting to send the inflammation in to try to help those things repair.

Speaker 2: 1:13:13

Later that evening we like to have a good restorative stretch. So now take your time. You know, I like somewhere between dinnertime and bedtime. Open that up. A lot of people don't do it because they don't feel the tension and the stress yet. They feel it the next morning and they think they need to stretch the next morning. Or they get done with their training and then they think they need to put an aggressive stretch in and now you're pulling on a muscle that's already just been traumatized from the exercise you've done. So have a good like and it doesn't take much.

Speaker 2: 1:13:38

In five to 10 minutes Stretch your quads, your hip flexors, stretch your calves and your feet and you know, maybe stretch your, your hips, your low back, and then that's it and just sort of get on with your day. And then we have some favorites that we like to use. But create a habit and right what's working for your body. But I would suggest that, especially hip extension. I see a lot of people working a lot of hip rotation stuff and that to me is just disruptive to the hip capsule and the cartilage. We're notorious for having tight hip rotators and I'm not saying to say like don't have normal hip rotation, but I see a lot of runners working pigeon stretch and things like that and be like stop cranking on your hip, help it extend.

Speaker 2: 1:14:22

But again, the habit of just five minutes at bed before you go to bed. What five minutes of stretching can I do? Can you do five minutes? Everybody can do five minutes. It doesn't have to be 30 minutes. Take five minutes, do a little bit of self care. That's your new habit.

Speaker 2: 1:14:34

Consider it you're brushing your teeth, right. How long did you spend the last week brushing your teeth? You're like I don't know, it's like not very long, I don't think. I just just have it. How long did you spend stretching? Oh, dude, I don't stretch Like five minutes, man, just make it and do it for four weeks. It'll become habit. So get that high-glacemic sugar in, make sure you get some protein, make sure you stretch. But I would separate some time before you have a good, meaningful stretch and reflect on your session. Right, reflect on your session and go hey, did I accomplish today's goal? Was today a tough day? Hey, I respect myself, gave myself a high five because it was one of those ones that Dr Herring had told me about and it wasn't fantastic. And I learned to kill that exercise a little bit earlier so I could live to fight the next day.

Speaker 1: 1:15:15

Right. So I think that's fantastic. So I think these are just some ideas for long-term running. So we're all trying not all, I mean we're trying to run for health, we're trying to run to race, we're trying to run to be fit, we're trying to run to be fast, and so the goal is long-term health and, in my opinion, the key to long-term health is consistency. If you do consistency, then you're likely going to have some life successes.

Speaker 2: 1:15:43

You know what? I didn't think about this, but think it like this and make sure I'm not missing anything Like spend five minutes doing a dynamic warmup before you go into your run, right. Make sure that you're filled up, Make sure you've got some hydration. Do that in the morning when you wake up. Make five minutes, kind of get into your sport and ease into it, ramp in If you're going long. Make sure you have some extra fueling when you do it and then, when you're all done, make sure you get some fuel, including carb and protein, in and have five minutes of stretch before you go to bed at night.

Speaker 2: 1:16:12

How about that for new habits? Right. How about that for self-care? It's not this like overwhelming huge amount of stuff that you have to do. It's not the big. Well, we started this podcast. It's not the big thing that you do. It's the little things that you do and you do them consistent.

Speaker 2: 1:16:27

Consistency is king and if you create a habit right, all good habits. Research will tell you that it takes 55 days to form a habit right. We find that most people, if you do it regularly, and especially our high achieving mind happens in four to six weeks and before you know it, it's no longer a mental laborsome thing, it's just part of what you do. But a lot of people don't write. How easy is it to form a habit? Well, it's not very easy, because most people stop, because it does take some mindfulness for four to six weeks and two weeks into it you're going to be annoyed. Or you're going to miss it for two days and go I screw it. I missed it for two days, I just can't do it. Yeah, yeah, tell that to the 10th grader. It's a literate, because nobody told them in kindergarten when they couldn't read. They just told you couldn't do it. Yet you didn't think you were able to do it and you didn't have the guidance along with it.

Speaker 2: 1:17:11

So I would challenge you to see the simplicity of this. It really is a low time hit and you can do simple things. Why? Because we want to do stuff for life. Right, it's not just about like, boom, I'm a bust and yeah, I want to perform well, but like I'm concerned about. I mean, next time you go to the grocery store, look around, right. Look at the average population that's out there. You're going to see a lot of good things and you're going to see a lot of alarming things, because that it's the whole spread of everybody. Who do you want to be Right? Do you want to be, you know, the one that gets in the cart and like, rolls around and that's not because you're overweight and you don't have activity, because you were driving your body into the ground and now you've got hip replacement, you've got knee replacement. So these things are not. Sorry, I got a little. I got a little passionate on this one, but these things are not that hard.

Speaker 2: 1:18:00

You hear people all the time I don't have time, like I would argue that you don't have time to not do it. And in the I don't have time. Five minutes in the morning focusing your hydration and nutrition, five minutes before your session, get you any sort of dynamic one you want to do, so ease into it, do your session, ease out of it, have a nice good, you know, you know. Brush your teeth, do five, five minutes of self-care at night. We're gonna bed, rinse, repeat and do it for life. And and watch you be the one in the grocery store, what you be, the one in the cruise who's running to the castle to do it three times when there's younger, supposedly more fit people bragging that they went all the way to the castle with some guide on the advanced tour, and that was your fourth recovery rep. So that's the guy I want to be, so and I think that's the reason.

Speaker 1: 1:18:49

That's the purpose of this whole podcast. Yeah, is it's it's it's it's, it's not hard, but it's not stuff that I was doing. Yeah, but, dude, it's easy, is? I've been at this for a long, long time? Yeah, and I've made some mistakes and I've had some injuries, but it's like you stated, it's easy. But I hadn't been doing it.

Speaker 2: 1:19:08

Yeah, and honestly, maybe I'm so passionate because I'm projecting a little bit, because I haven't been as consistent and same here. But as I get older and I'm in master's kind of level and as we get older, our body heals a little bit slower. The little things matter more. So the things I used to get away with I can't get away with it Wasn't that I should have gotten away with them before, but that I could allows you to trim that fat. I had had lots of Excuses right and have any good explanations and and having come over to the side of it and seeing it, it's kind of like I want to bring you along with me because I'm there with you, like I've got lots of track record and I'm lying if I say that I do this perfectly every single time. Right, but I'm, I'm striving for it and it's it's part of my self-care regimen and my motivation is really because, like my girls, I want to be there and I want to be an active grandparent and I want to be engaged in their life. That's my motivating factor. For me it's not because I want to get back to Conan. I got a race for my best and if I'm gonna be a professional athlete. Now it's. It's. It's everything to do with the hub way family, man, family is my leading North star, and quality of life has everything to do with how you're moving.

Speaker 2: 1:20:20

As we get older and as we do this stuff, we accumulate tension and we tighten up quicker than we used to. The self-care becomes that much more important, right, and it's like brushing your teeth. It's not an overwhelming amount of self-care, it's as dr Harry said, it is consistency, and consistency is king. And you look at it, we're talking five minutes in the morning, five minutes somewhere during the day and five minutes in the evening 15 minutes. If you can create habit, you're gonna be healthier, you're gonna be happier, you're gonna perform better, you're gonna have better longevity. That's what we're trying to get through this and we've done it Enough times wrong to see the value in doing it right and how these little things matter exactly.

Speaker 1: 1:21:02

Lessons from the knuckleheads. This week we're super excited because we have two lessons from two knuckleheads. The first one's gonna be a what you should what you don't do, and the second one should be what you do, do, do.

Speaker 2: 1:21:22

You just said do do, right, yeah, so don't do and do do.

Speaker 1: 1:21:27

We have the mentality of teenage boys, okay. So what you should not do is just because it works for the pros does not mean it's gonna work for you.

Speaker 1: 1:21:36

Yeah, it worries me to know in that we see this guy who set the marathon world record. He's running 180 miles a week. He's running 27 miles a day at marathon pace and everybody out there's gonna think that Marathon training team now is gonna be running 25 miles a day at marathon pace. So just because it were worked for the pros, it may not work for you. The reason is they have a core people around them. They get massage every day, they get naps every day, they get nutrition and they have recovery stuff available to them that you may not have and it may lead to failure.

Speaker 2: 1:22:11

Yeah, yeah, it's smart. I mean, it's not much, much more to say. I mean, appreciate what they do, but don't try to replicate. It's just a different type of training than what all of us are doing. So you know, I and the clinic part is what we see it all the time. And you know, spend a day with us and you can. You can just see the byproducts of it. I know it looks good on paper and if it worked for that, it'll work for you and it's all more risk and very little reward, yeah, so what's your? What's your?

Speaker 1: 1:22:37

do-do. My do-do is there is a fantastic way, if you live the hub life and you've got some fitness, to enjoy your vacation.

Speaker 2: 1:22:46

Yeah so.

Speaker 1: 1:22:47

So some people think they they go on vacation, they can take, take time off from exercise, and that's okay. If you need a break, take time off from exercise. But it's probably a little more valuable if you got like me, to your mental health, getting out and doing something yeah, cuz cuz. That helps. That helps for me to Equalize things, where my mindset can be the same as everybody else's.

Speaker 1: 1:23:09

If I've exercised at some point during the day, yeah, so you can use that vacation where you don't have Responsibilities of being at work and phone calls and all that to get some kind of session in. That doesn't mean it has to be a defined session of 6 by 1 miles at 7 15 pace. It can be going out and run up the mountain to a castle or it can be running through a park. It could be exploring a city yeah, right. So if you can use vacation to get some sessions in and that way you're not bitter that you're not getting to exercise because you're on vacation, all these people who don't exercise, but you're probably gonna have a better day yeah, totally, if you can work that in no, I totally agree with that.

Speaker 2: 1:23:52

I think you didn't buy that perfectly. The other part I would add, with that too, is like, don't prioritize your exercise on that vacation too and you did a beautiful job of doing it, getting back and being totally present for the rest of the day. I know people that go on vacation and Selfishly book half the day with them going on a bike ride, as opposed to you're being present with the people that like love and you Want to be around to support you while you're just nose down and got to get some training. So, get something done, but don't let it overwhelm and and take you away from you know the people you love the most. So, yeah, get out, and when you work out and you get up there like the darn, the views how much more beautiful, incredible when you actually earned it like that.

Speaker 1: 1:24:31

Apoxia is an incredible thing.

Speaker 2: 1:24:33

Yeah, man, you climb a mountain on a bike, you climb a mountain on your feet and you look down. It looks much different than when you took the car right up there.

Speaker 1: 1:24:40

That's truly one of my favorite things to do. If you're feeling, if you're feeling a brand new place, it's put your running shoes on and Run wherever, stop and take some pictures, take a deep breath and see the views. And it's not gonna be 8 8 miles at 7 30 pace, but it's gonna be spectacular.

Speaker 2: 1:24:57

Yeah, you get your fitness in, you enjoy it, you see some beautiful sights, you get back your calm and you're just be totally engaged with the people around you and Relax man. That's what vacations all about.

Speaker 1: 1:25:08

That's what you do. Do is.

Speaker 2: 1:25:16

Well, that was pretty fun, man. I think I Think we covered a lot and I think we can sum it up pretty quick. I think it's it might I hate to say it's simple, but it's. It's simple and we come from a vantage point of like. We also Haven't done it perfectly for a long time, and not that we do it perfectly every single time, but it is not that hard to develop these habits.

Speaker 2: 1:25:37

Right before your run, you make sure that your nutrition, your hydration, make sure you work on some mobility, get your body ready for the session right when you get into the session, make sure that, if it's going longer, that you have the fuel needed if you want to actually, you know, go over 90 minutes. Make sure that you're listening to your body, make sure that you're in tune with it, make sure that you're doing the right thing by it. When it's all over, you know, make sure that you get the nutrition in directly afterwards to help your body regenerate, repair, rehydrate, and then that evening, spend five minutes Doing some self-care to. You know, make sure that your, your body is ready for the next day. Doesn't take much time, doesn't take much effort, but it does take consistent habits which are hard to develop, but once you get it, or easy to maintain. So that is sort of maybe my size somewhere probably miss something. What do you think?

Speaker 1: 1:26:28

I think that's fantastic and I would tell you it's taken me a long time to really understand this truly matters, yeah, and I see people in clinic all the time, but it's all you know. It's also my, my, my own fitness and my my own goals. It's taken me a long time to realize that very simple Pre-run stuff, during run stuff, and him and post run stuff matters, yeah, because if you don't do that, you can't be consistent, you can't be be be be consistent. You're leaving a lot on the table.

Speaker 2: 1:26:59

Yeah and any. We're not immune to injuries. We've been injured, we've been through it, and almost always I can come back and see that I've missed the consistent things that I've done to maintain my body, and it's easy to take the shortcuts and I've got plenty of excuses of why. So I've been there, I get it, but when it comes down to it it's it's about longevity and it's about, you know, being healthy. As life goes on and as it as I get older, the little things matter more, and they always mattered, but they met. They're magnified now. So if you can just develop your habits and listen to your body and maybe our habits, maybe you found one that you know contributes to it. Or, you know, maybe you pick and choose a little bit, but you know our big thing is is like you want to be hydrated, you want good nutrition, you want to be mobile, you want to be smart. So Think about it and start to adopt them and be patient with yourself.

Speaker 1: 1:27:46

Right, be patient with yourself and don't be afraid to eat a little humble pie instead of your anti-inflammatory.

Speaker 2: 1:27:52

Yeah, yeah, dude, eating a humble pie is great. If I'm not on the edge of my ability to figure out where my my edge is man, I love it and that's why I love to be around you and train partners that we have is man. We lift each other up and we laugh at each other when things go down. And and if you and if you're not getting to the point when you get some humble pie right, you're probably too scared to stretch yourself, right. So, yeah, maybe that was a little aggressive to say but, but that's the beauty of this stuff, and as soon as it starts to become Guaranteed, you or you deserve it right. Start, check yourself a little bit. Take a break, yeah, take a break, take a break. Run to a top of a castle, go on vacation and run to a castle three times, three times so.

Speaker 2: 1:28:33

So I'm gonna ask you on your trip, right? So when you came to a hill, what'd you do?

Speaker 1: 1:28:38

I always went uphill unless I was at the top, and then I had to run back down and then what did you do?

Speaker 2: 1:28:44

I ran back up. You come to a fork the road always go uphill.