#12 Pushing Boundaries and Growing through Olympic Triathlon Racing: Insights from the Jamestown Olympic Triathlon Experience

Dr. Marion "Moose" Herring: 0:02

Welcome. I'm Dr Moose Herring, Orthopedic Sports Medicine Specialist.

Dr. Rob Green: 0:06

I'm Dr Rob Green, Sports Chiropractor, Coach, Trustee Sidekick. We are Lifetime Endurance Athletes. We are Eager Lab Rats.

Dr. Marion "Moose" Herring: 0:13

We are Maker of Many Mistakes. We are Family-focused sports medicine docs that are balancing family work and fitness and are enjoying the ride While we are sports medicine professionals. this podcast is not part of our professional responsibilities. No doctor, patient or coach-athlete relationship developed this podcast. We have no financial support from any outside resources. The only support we get is from our fantastic wives that sit back and look at us in complete dismay.

Dr. Rob Green: 0:42

Welcome to HubLife. Enjoy the show. Welcome back to HubLife. This is Race, Race Day, Race Day. how are you feeling?

Dr. Marion "Moose" Herring: 0:50

Post-podcast, post-race podcast. She was not clear.

Dr. Rob Green: 0:55

my ideas Yeah, it's Olympic man. Holy cow, that's a hard day. But yeah, we came straight from Jamestown Olympic Trathlon and podcasting. So I think we've got a great idea today of a main topic of covering kind of how we went in and how it went and then the reflection on it afterwards. But before we do it, what's happening?

Dr. Marion "Moose" Herring: 1:18

in your world. Well, we missed last week, so sorry about that. I was at a reunion, like we came, with my teammates from college. It was fantastic, we had a house. We didn't leave the house, we just we caught up and it's amazing to see after 34 years, what these guys have done raising kids, families, troubles, health issues. It's amazing to catch up and it's amazing how time flies.

Dr. Rob Green: 1:44

Yeah.

Dr. Marion "Moose" Herring: 1:45

I know I tell you this all the time, but seas every day. It's been 34 years since I played with these guys. These guys are top notch guys, good dads, you know husbands, some good athletes. But time flies. What sport? Water polo and swimming.

Dr. Rob Green: 2:00

Yeah, water polo man, that's legit, is it not? I've heard so many crazy stories about that, but I've never done it, it's just super fun Open water football, except you have to tread.

Dr. Marion "Moose" Herring: 2:12

you have to tread more the whole time. Anything below the water level goes. All the fouls and fake fouls are above water. Man, oh man, That's crazy. Just great to catch up with those guys 35 years isn't that crazy to think about.

Dr. Rob Green: 2:29

Like 35 years, i think that that's. That's a solid life. It's 35 year old, let alone 35 years ago. I'm 25 years away from baseball and meeting with if I was meeting with those guys and I'm like that's older, that's longer ago than I was at that age.

Dr. Marion "Moose" Herring: 2:46

Like you said flies. Most of us have kids that are 25, 26, 27,. But it's amazing to hear what the kids have done and you know good and bad and it's major health issues and it's just amazing.

Dr. Rob Green: 3:00

Makes you grateful, man.

Dr. Marion "Moose" Herring: 3:01

We're lucky Every day And that's you know. That's what's great about this lifestyle which we talk about diet and exercise and health and lifespan, not life. I mean health span, not lifespan. That's truly important, because some of these guys have had that. That's health issues. But there are a couple of guys still super fit and on it.

Dr. Rob Green: 3:24

Yeah, I was gonna say, especially with swimmers. I've always and you know better than I do, but I'd always just heard they go one extreme together, They stay in it and they say hardcore, or you kind of fall off the cliff, just because I mean if there's one athlete that can just train the house down, it's a swimmer.

Dr. Marion "Moose" Herring: 3:37

There's something bizarre about being able to stare at a black line for hours and hours, and hours.

Dr. Rob Green: 3:42

Training with you, man. You don't have a central governor. At least it's a lot higher than what mine was when I met you Swimmers. you can just you can switch that thing off. The mental strength of a swimmer is very impressive from just chasing that black line.

Dr. Marion "Moose" Herring: 3:54

I tell you, in Olympic we'll test your central governor.

Dr. Rob Green: 3:58

Man that was my central governor, was like we forgot, we forgot, but it was like to be way up there.

Dr. Marion "Moose" Herring: 4:04

Yeah, but. But. But you know, everybody's good. We've had a. We've had a fantastic spring, early summer, which has been nice and cool.

Dr. Rob Green: 4:13

Yeah.

Dr. Marion "Moose" Herring: 4:13

You know, so we hadn't had to heat and it's just been super fun training. We've been really lucky, super fun.

Dr. Rob Green: 4:19

Yeah, I've been really lucky. It's mid-June and usually in Virginia, where we were already fighting the humidity and everything. So, yeah, no, it's been. and even race morning today was cold. I had to put on a jacket and yeah, no, it was pretty cool 16, yeah, so, yeah.

Dr. Rob Green: 4:34

So it's had a lot of great local triathletes out there. We saw what Greg is out there. We were going to be excited to have him on the show here sometime soon. He's the. He's the grand poob of kinetic multi-sports. If you all haven't raced, i mean what I mean seriously. We take it for granted. Usually you go to like an Ironman race or something big where it's just the production so smooth. Kinetic multi-sports puts on an incredibly smooth race from tip to tail and we all, if you don't know, it takes a tremendous amount of work to make things look easy and Greg is on it. Man, i heard a compliment of him from somebody who was new. He's like oh, is that the? is that Greg? Is that the? that's the guy that does all this. He's like. I saw him out there waving. He was in the trenches and he's the first guy to step in and so it's great to see him. I hope to. I think we're going to end up having him on sometime soon, yeah we talked to him today.

Dr. Marion "Moose" Herring: 5:26

He really his events from check-in to to racking everything to the you know race, feels safe, well supported. He just does a fantastic job Yeah.

Dr. Rob Green: 5:39

And they have a ton of races, man. You know, i don't know the number now, but they're going to. They did an Olympic today, they're going to do a sprint tomorrow. You know, next week they're probably racing somewhere. I mean, they're putting on I mean a couple of dozen, a few dozen races across a few states. So it's really, it's really impressive And we're just I mean, we're lucky, we got up this morning, we drove to the race, we raced, we came back. There's a super competitive field. There's a great smooth experience. They're just on it. So you're big, big props to kinetic.

Dr. Marion "Moose" Herring: 6:08

There's some local talent, It's. you know, it's fun to show up at a race that has 400 people. There are some fast people out front, man.

Dr. Rob Green: 6:16

I mean it's fun. I mean it pushes you, puts you, puts you on the the edge of your boundaries and maybe a little bit beyond. So, no, great to see see everybody out there. And yeah, take a look at their schedule. Kineticmultisportscom. Seriously, if you take a look, you live on the East coast, there's probably something not that far away and just some some incredible racing. We're hubtrainingcentercom. You can find us on Facebook, on Instagram and all those fancy book face places. We've got lots of fun things coming.

Dr. Rob Green: 6:49

So that's our day. So happy race. Yep, pretty good idea. Today Had the Olympic. So in this main topic, what if we cover kind of how we went in, what the intention was, what we wanted to do and what the plan was, and then we kind of talk about how it went today and then we can have a post race review And and maybe for our listeners that'll help them see how we approach it, i think maybe we had some similar and maybe some differences in in how we approached it. But then how do? we've talked a lot before about metrics and there's no perfect way like what works for you, what works for me, and and maybe we can kind of share how, how we approach it And maybe that's got some steel from steel from it. What you like, maybe some things resonate with with the listener, so that way you know, you and I can reflect on it and and cover it with everybody and and see what you think. What do you think about that?

Dr. Marion "Moose" Herring: 7:48

That's good.

Dr. Rob Green: 7:49

Yeah, so where do you want to start?

Dr. Marion "Moose" Herring: 7:52

So what's the purpose of the Olympic? I mean, we, historically, over the last five, six years, we have raced halves and full right. So, as we looked at our schedule, what's the purpose of doing Olympic and paying for it and driving and waiting around and racing? What's the purpose?

Dr. Rob Green: 8:13

So, so yeah so what did you do today?

Dr. Marion "Moose" Herring: 8:16

I want to learn how to race again And I think I am a guy who, when I race halves and fulls, i'm all about the numbers And I can set in on a power or set on a heart rate and that's the goal. But you know the whole day and there's less focus on racing, right? So my purpose today was to have a have a couple of days rest, rest going in and be all out with the main focus on a fast bike and see how I could run off that fast bike. Yeah, so that. And when you race in Olympic you get a bump in fitness. Oh, big Yeah. And in two weeks we have a 70, you have a 70.3. And I was looking for a big bump in fitness.

Dr. Rob Green: 8:56

Yeah, that's exactly why I did it. I mean I'm training through this race And there's, i mean to get that extra squeeze of the orange, get that juice out. Man, i can try to train hard. We've covered the benefits of training, of training hard. I could try to train hard on my own. It'll feel hard, but the numbers won't be the same because of because of pushing it. So to be out there with a race number makes that a higher quality workout. It's a lot of fun. It stretches my comfort zone And we were joking about that central governor of the swimmers.

Dr. Rob Green: 9:29

You all have crazy. Well, why? Because you, you routinely chase that black line. You got to learn to dissociate. If you get yourself out of those comfort zones, you are naturally lifting, like your brain will, will tell your body to shut down before your body needs to shut down, right? So so, pushing that and doing an array setting and and that skill of racing and the fun of racing, and you know, that's that's no. We've got Penn State in a couple of weeks and and it wasn't. You know, go out and have a great race. It's, we'll cover this for me. I don't know where it was for you as a sea race, and that doesn't mean I I put in a sea effort. It just sort of means the metrics are more of a sea value And it was, it was great And it was fun man We have before we started this podcast. How much do we kind of talk about and giggle about the day and and being around friends and just enjoying it? So yeah, that's why I did it.

Dr. Marion "Moose" Herring: 10:21

That's a great morning, it's a great event, but it's it can show you you have more in you, right? So so you think you mean, if we got to, if we got to West Creek on Saturday and we do our brick and you can run X, you put a number on and you chase or you're being chased, x becomes faster.

Dr. Rob Green: 10:41

Yeah, and this was my first race of the season. I know, and I think you'll talk about it You've had a couple or you've had one And the biggest thing for me before before Penn State, is like I made some some mistakes today that you know I need that first race to sort of fumble around a little bit So that can happen in a, in a setting where it's not crazy important to kind of nail everything. So I mean, that was a huge benefit too. And it's man at Olympic. I'll tell you what, when you're doing Olympic, simple things like zipping stuff up and taking things off, it is so much harder when you're, when your lungs are up in your throat. So, yeah, no, it was. It was a lot of fun, but but that was my intent. Was it a, was it a, a, b, c race for you? What was it for you?

Dr. Marion "Moose" Herring: 11:29

I'd say C race, but I did rest a couple days. The day's going in and I'll rest again tomorrow, with the purpose being getting a big, giant effort, Yeah. So I felt like if I rested on Thursday and Friday and I went all in today, and I was definitely all in today and Saturday was the rest day that that was. So I did come down some for it. Oh, you got to.

Dr. Rob Green: 11:53

I mean, if you want to do it safely and not get hurt and then recover on the back end, and you know it's, it's. It's funny to say that it's something to maybe to point out is that you got two days of kind of some active recovery going into it and you got two days active recovery on the back end. You got one big blast and that's sort of you know five days. And somebody may look at that race and go well, i've only had one quality work out in five days. Well, yeah, because you just blasted yourself. So what's that that? that simple yet great formula which is stress plus rest equals success, and that big stressor is in that five days, even though it's one quality, is going to give you, like you said, a really nice boost, man, but but recover and don't force into it and don't go. We were tired going into it but but don't go into it and make yourself vulnerable to injury or And I think you also got to be be careful with with C level races.

Dr. Marion "Moose" Herring: 12:47

Train hard up to it gives you an excuse why you didn't do so well. So take a couple of days and be be be all in.

Dr. Rob Green: 12:58

You know what I'll? I'll be a good example of that because I'll talk about I don't have an excuse, I have explanations because it makes me make sure that I'm not in the wrong expectation. But don't be the guy that, like, shows up race day and then announces your whole training plan leading into it. And I had a hard day yesterday.

Dr. Marion "Moose" Herring: 13:19

My legs are tired. Yeah, you're making excuse.

Dr. Rob Green: 13:21

Now you're making excuse, And it's because you're, you're, you're insecure about what the results going to be And you want to let everybody know that you know. No, no, I'm just tired, I don't know. And you're, you're, scared because you, you think that it may not be the perfect day. Just, dude, put on the race number, smile, stick your head out the window and and and get after it.

Dr. Marion "Moose" Herring: 13:40

But, but, but for me, i don't look over the fence anymore. I mean, if I know, if I've got a couple of days rest, you know, you know going in there's. There's no explanations in my head Why shouldn't be able to hit? you know, hit those numbers, what do you mean? So if I so, i took Thursday and started, i did a, did a break, but easy break, on Thursday and I swam easy, easy Friday. My mindset today was I'm ready to roll, i'm ready to be all in, yeah, all in. If I, historically, as I'm going to go do a hard run, an hour run, on Friday, just so I'm a little tired on Saturday, that puts me in a different mindset.

Dr. Rob Green: 14:24

Oh yeah. So you're kind of like it's just the way you're self-talk, Right Yeah, that's pretty good. No, and and one of my favorite things you always point out you get to race Saturday. Right, right, you don't have to race Saturday, you get to race. So, instead of looking at like I have to race, i scheduled it and I'm a little tired, but but I got to do it because it's part. I need this boost instead of getting up and going. You know what? It's part of training. It's catered, it's a big group workout.

Dr. Marion "Moose" Herring: 14:53

I get to race and I get to push myself and and I think, i think it's one of HUB's biggest points If you get up, race more and you look in the mirror and you're and your little mirror speaks back to you go, be the best you.

Dr. Rob Green: 15:07

Yeah, that's exactly right, man, it's all about. That's why I love being around triathletes. It's more about lifting each other up. It's not about sizing each other up. It's more about you know what? Let's toe line, let's get the best out of each other and let's smile and let's hug afterwards And, uh, let's have that embrace it.

Dr. Marion "Moose" Herring: 15:24

Yeah.

Dr. Rob Green: 15:25

I love it. So prep work man, so what it. so you've kind of talked about a little bit. What is your, what we now have, sort of what we were going in, why, why we registered, why we did it. So what's your?

Dr. Marion "Moose" Herring: 15:37

um, what's it look like going into it the week of So, like you know, like you said, it was a C level race, it was still an important for me to see what I had. So my prep I've had a great winter prep. I've been doing for the last two, three weeks, much more Olympic specific stuff. So I've off a harder bike. I've been doing three by one Ks with short 90 second rest of what I expected my Olympic, my 10 K pace to be Yeah, right, and so bike is the same. I've been doing Olympic, uh, olympic level power, with short rest, you know, trying to figure out exactly what that was. And then for the swim I've been doing like hundreds at 25, all out 75 at CSS pace with short rest And I've been doing two hundreds of 50 all out with 150 CSS with short rest getting.

Dr. Marion "Moose" Herring: 16:38

you're getting used to that upper level Olympic like the gas level.

Dr. Rob Green: 16:42

And just so, like people know, like all out and then, and then you settle into CSS. That is not settling that, that is coming back down to threshold. So it's like a race push out, like you get that big lactic blast and then you got to settle into threshold and figure that out.

Dr. Marion "Moose" Herring: 16:59

But that's the but that's. you know, that's the. I didn't do very well today, but that's the Olympic way to swim. Yeah, you're, you're all out. And then you got to settle into what threshold is And if you, you got to be all out again to to brace the next group or hang on for your life. I think I think those sessions of one K at 10 K pace, um doing doing shorter intervals at 40, 40 K power in those swim sets, were great leading.

Dr. Rob Green: 17:28

Yeah, so you did some some race specific work, truly for the Olympic. Yeah, yeah.

Dr. Marion "Moose" Herring: 17:34

And then Monday, the, and our goal was to come down off off the legs. So swam ridiculously hard Monday, wednesday hard brick Tuesday easy brick Thursday. So many. So I've really had two days where I, where I came down to my my some intensity was higher early in the week than I had two days wrestling in there And I felt on Friday and Saturday I'm all in, i mean. I have no excuses. Great build. You don't see what happens.

Dr. Rob Green: 18:02

And of all the people. You had tons of excuses.

Dr. Marion "Moose" Herring: 18:04

You traveled back from last week, got in late, tons of meetings and tons of surgery and and yeah, yeah, we're lucky to get to get to do this And I and I was just trying to be the best me.

Dr. Rob Green: 18:15

Yeah, that's, that's, that's awesome. How about you? Um, for me it was it's C race too, um, and it was in preparation for for the 70.3 in two weeks, and I haven't raced yet this year, so it was kind of it's first race since cone of last year. So it was exciting. I mean I texted you and Justin last night. I love that night before man, i just love it. So, um, that part was really exciting, um, but I went in um with a couple days recovery just to freshen up a little bit. But I didn't do only style like specific work. I've been working on FTP stuff, i've been pushing hard in the water, but but, um, this was more to get what you were talking about, which is just a nice good big bump in fitness. It'd be a really hard um, uh, catered brick uh and um, uh, recover and then get right back into training. So so it was coming back to like a pretty big build for me and um I I've had a pretty hard week going into it.

Dr. Rob Green: 19:20

So on on Monday I had my normal uh swim to recover from the weekend work And then on Tuesday I had a hard bike, um, and then on Wednesday I had a really hard track session uh session, um, running. I did, um, i think it was something of three times one mile um, at uh, 70.3, 3.1 mile, 70.3. So it was three times one mile 70.3, half mile at threshold, quarter mile above threshold, uh, and then so three rounds of that Uh, and man, i ran really really well uh. But then I woke up on Thursday and I was like, oh, so I need Thursday, friday, so then had a really nice recovery. I um had a good swim on uh Thursday and then, uh, um, pretty easy and and kind of chill bike on Friday leading into this. So it felt good, man, it was a sea race. So you know we had those 48 hours kind of tapered down, um, but not decondition at the same time.

Dr. Rob Green: 20:22

So you're not fresh. If you look at training peaks, um, a lot of times you'll see kind of how you race, whether you're TSP and where that is, and you know a lot of times you see races you might be in the negative, 20 mark, negative, 15 mark, negative, maybe even a little bit more. But um, um, that was leading into it. So I was really excited. It was exciting to get a race out. I wasn't expecting a whole lot. I also wasn't totally sure. Um, just because your training's I'm starting to come back around.

Dr. Rob Green: 20:51

So you're in that training phase where you're like it's not that it's not clicking, but you're like, okay, build up, build up, build up. And all of a sudden there's that point where you're like, oh, things are starting to come together again a little bit, so it's kind of leading into. I was just on that threshold. So I was like I wonder what that's going to be like. And going into a race when we've been doing this for a couple of decades, i was like I don't know, yeah, i have no clue. So that's fun, man. I mean, if you knew exactly what you're going to get, what fun would it be? So that was my prep going in, um, and then, um, you know, i had some metrics going in. And so what did you have? So metrics going in before you started. What was your? so that was the week going in. What was your game plan? for you know how do you approach it? So how do you approach an Olympic? And then what were those numbers?

Dr. Marion "Moose" Herring: 21:37

So I'm probably much more um. well, that's not true. I'm very data driven, yeah.

Dr. Rob Green: 21:45

And I try geeks, man, We're all. we're all wired that way.

Dr. Marion "Moose" Herring: 21:48

So I had. I felt like I was going to have a good solid swim And the goal was was to get out quick and settle in the CSS pay for that. But that was, um, the but but for me going into this was to race the bike And I have in the past, for 70.3 in fulls, use power and heart rate. And the guy that I'm working with now, he convinced me to take take power off the face of my bike computer and only use speed, cause speeds. All that, all that's a point A to point B, It's all that matters. Yeah, So, so so you use speed and heart rate. Yeah, He said, you can use heart rate if you get, if you get to a max, he said, but I won't, but I want your average speed to be X. So, hmm, Hmm, average speed to be X and and and a heart rate max is the goal with that?

Dr. Rob Green: 22:36

to what's the quiet wide, just speed. Was it just like Be stay arrow to be tight, to maximize the speed, to?

Dr. Marion "Moose" Herring: 22:43

be tight and to see Where my cadence fell out. Mm-hmm, because you're trying to ride that, you're trying to rock, ride as fast as you can't, can't. You know, can't, can't, can't. Speed wise instead of Mashing the, you know, power was so. So it's a. It's a different type of racing for me And I think I'm just trying to try to find a flush out. Is my cadence high? is my cadence low? How do I go ahead? Do I stay tight? You know, you know, how can I go as fast as I can with the lowest heart rate? Yeah, so that was the goal. Going in and In nutrition. What me nutrition on the bike on Olympic is not all that important, but we were practicing for 70 3 and I really worked on Trying to get at least 90 grams of carb per per hour. So even though I didn't and if, like, i need 90 grams, my goal was to force 90 grams of carbs for that.

Dr. Marion "Moose" Herring: 23:34

That's that hour on the bike and Take one caffeinated gel at the end. Because for me? into the bike at the end of the bike? Wow, because, because the caffeinated gel for me kicks in about 10, you know is that part of the 90 grams or was it?

Dr. Rob Green: 23:50

Okay, it's part of night. I think I had 90 and then you had a gel. I was like woo, no, 60 grams, gotcha of.

Dr. Marion "Moose" Herring: 23:55

Carb drink Yeah, and 30 grams of a caffeinated gel Yeah, I've been using this caffeinated gel is You?

Dr. Marion "Moose" Herring: 24:04

yeah, but it takes a good 10 to 15 minutes At that upper level to kick in yeah so my goals were to ride a certain average mile per hour Yeah, it had a heart rate, whatever, that way that was and to get in 90 grams of carbs, yeah. Then, as far as the run, what the guy that been working with, he had an idea. I got, i got good, run a certain, a certain pace, and Looked at last night and I'm like he's freaking crazy, yeah, and so I went out slower, but The goal of running a certain pace but, but but ended up working out. I'll just be talking about that in a second.

Dr. Rob Green: 24:41

But downplay it. That's pretty awesome. I mean, that's it's. How great is that to have somebody sort of like tell you that, that objective point of view about, like hey, that's what I think you're capable of, you like, all right, put down the crack pipe.

Dr. Marion "Moose" Herring: 24:53

And I think that's a benefit of having a coach. Yeah, like at hub, where somebody's looking at your data and I, i just drive myself like nobody's business. If somebody looks at my data and said dude, you're, you're not running like you should be running, yeah, or you're not riding like he should be wherever you be riding, step up, yeah, i was like What, but So we can talk about what happened. But he, but he and I, he, he said these, these cats for me, yeah, so it was different. It was different. That's awesome.

Dr. Rob Green: 25:29

I've raised how about you? and then that's coming from somebody like you've done this for a long time, so like to have somebody like still push you out of your comfort zone. It's fantastic. Yeah, first one of the year it was interesting is for the swim. It was Because swims, the goal for that was get out firm, don't over swim in the first 100 to 200 meters. You know that that for me is always sort of free Effort because it feels easy. But your race adrenaline up. I get pretty psyched up for it. So it was just not to gas myself out and then settle into What felt like CSS all.

Dr. Rob Green: 26:07

But in swimming's always should really be by feel. I mean, you don't have any, don't stop and look at your watch and was just to make sure it was comfortable. We, we swim out into a current and then back With with the current a little bit. So it was more to kind of like keep a good turnover going up and then sort of try to glide on the way back. So and just let it be right. That's the thing that river swimming, but any swims. It was also like when you come out of the water, don't, don't let it define you. You don't know what the water is gonna be like. It turned out to be a slower swim. So it was just to have a good solid swim and never be comfortable. It will be comfortable in the water But never you'll be at that Olympic Feel and and be uncomfortable for most of it But but to have control that on the on the back half. So that was a swim. And to have a good wetsuit swim. It was nice to put the wetsuit on and just get used to it. It's been a little bit, a little while.

Dr. Rob Green: 27:01

And then bike bike was, um, i Wanted to. It was by feel. Really, this day for me was all by feel. I would the. The metrics I was looking at were more just to go huh, i look down. It was more to just I want to know the feel of it. I want to push the Olympic Effort is should feel hard today. I know my heart rate threshold on the bikes, once in the upper 160s and I Just wanted to like, okay, let's get it, let's be on the throttle today.

Dr. Rob Green: 27:31

So I sort of looked at heart rate. I didn't look really a power Well, i'll tell you where I looked at power. When we get into, we get into it. But it was really go by, feel and just have my heart rate sit on that, that dial of just at threshold, if not maybe a little under, at times may a little bit over, but but sort of just hold that. And then get off the bike and get into run.

Dr. Rob Green: 27:51

And in my sort of thought process was my run starting to come back around. I really sort of thought I could hit 620s, just sit on 620s. But I but I wasn't going in with the goal of like hey, get off the bike and run at 620s, get off the bike and run Olympic Right, just run by feel, look down. But in my head I was like, oh, i think it can maybe equate to that, but it is what it is. And in same concept the big leader was run by feel And then just have my heart rate right on the rivet, right right on the rivet, and then you run that first 5k, smart, with the intention right. We always kind of like to tell people run that first 5k with the second 5k, with respect for the second 5k. And that was the day really. So I all honesty, i went in Not knowing swim hard, bike close to threshold and use heart rate for it, and then run close to threshold and watch heart rate for it.

Dr. Marion "Moose" Herring: 28:48

So when you said you were, you thought you could run 620. Why?

Dr. Rob Green: 28:52

I've been doing pacing work on the track, like on Wednesday, right I think, two weeks ago, not two weeks. Last week I did Five, no, i did six times one mile at threshold And that was really to kind of like right. Not only was there a workout, but it was a little bit of a field test for me to to see if I, if I, really what I think is threshold really is threshold. There's no about heart rate or there's about pace when it's on the track and it's a mile Pace, right. Heart rate takes too long to come up to it, right. So, but I was, i was looking to see, hey, is my lactic threshold what? I think it is right, I haven't. I haven't tested that Recently and I just wanted to make sure it's about where I thought it was. So I, so I had, i had been working out In doing some threshold work and I was like, yeah, i think I think it's 620.

Dr. Rob Green: 29:44

I think it's 615, maybe it's 610. It's somewhere in there and it was from previous workouts, but today I sort of didn't, i didn't know for sure. Now that was going to the track doing mile repeats by pace on the track in today's race. Was Heart rate right? I was gonna try to sit right in the dial of my lactic threshold heart rate. So you know, when we talk about our different zones, which one do you use? or your heart rate guy? your power guy, are you? it's well that it depends on the situation. Really, what, what I think everybody should be is, it's your, your intuitive, it should 100% by be, by feel, and your gadgets are to make sure that you're feeling what you're actually doing. And so that was that was today, that was that was my intent behind the Olympic and those are. It's a training day And it's it's sort of fun because you just I didn't I sort of only thing I knew is it be hard?

Dr. Marion "Moose" Herring: 30:38

I'm gonna disagree with you a little bit. Yeah, to me today, when the training day it was a race day. Love Go going and putting on a race number and we're racing, because I know I'm probably gonna get it's the guess 10 to 15% out of myself more. Yeah and when I look back on it, it's it's a race. Yeah, dude, today Was a race totally.

Dr. Rob Green: 31:02

Yeah, yeah, dude, do you put a number on? It's a race time. Yeah, exactly right. And that man. We are racers. I know about, i'm about y'all, but but we're racers at heart. It's fun, we're, we're a process, we love the training and everything, but, man, there's just nothing like this, is nothing like racing.

Dr. Marion "Moose" Herring: 31:18

So it's a race day. That's a race day.

Dr. Rob Green: 31:21

So train race day.

Dr. Rob Green: 31:22

Yeah so, but I Agree, so I agree with your disagreement. But there's also another part of me too is like oh, you want to race race, so let's, let's race race, let's taper down and let's race race. That to me is like Get ugly, i'm, i'm, i'm peeked for this, i'm ready to go. So, for my brain, today's a race day. As soon as that number goes on, i get. That's where I get extra, extra squeeze out of it that I couldn't do Otherwise. But like, if I think, race like I'm, like you, you want to really race, race, Let's, let's schedule that race and tell me what it is and let's do it so.

Dr. Marion "Moose" Herring: 31:56

So we're gonna talk toward toward the end about how Rob's day went and He's gonna explain to you his last hundred yards of his run and we're gonna go back to this Is his concept to see if he was racing or not.

Dr. Rob Green: 32:09

We got some a chase and there's right. What do you say? hunting rabbits? is that your?

Dr. Rob Green: 32:13

line hunting rabbits, so Yeah. So there's actually a little bit of motivation out there when, when you're just trying to like, you raise people and friends and all that good stuff. So yeah, race race, yeah, race race. But yeah, so that that was the prep. Yeah, so now, as Mike Tyson would say, everybody's got a plan to they get punched in the face, right. So how did the actual so that was a plan going in for you. How did the actual race go?

Dr. Marion "Moose" Herring: 32:37

um, you know This, this swim, that that venue is hard. Yeah, it's a hard swim, and the reason it's hard swim is you're no more than No more than six feet deep the whole time.

Dr. Marion "Moose" Herring: 32:52

Yeah and from the it's, it's a time trial start So that they put people in a box, that we're racing, we're all racing, i'm not gonna be able to box. And they say they say race, that go. And the first buoy is probably 300 yards out, 200 years out, and it's it's. It's no more than waist deep, yeah. And so I'm swimming along, heart rate's going up And I'm looking over and somebody's running beside me And so at the same speed, practice speed so.

Dr. Marion "Moose" Herring: 33:19

I had a hard time the first, first start of the swim, you know, the first, first part of the swim trying to figure out shall I be swimming, should I be diving, should I be jumping? So I got gapped a little bit by a group I thought I could swim with and then we turned in that, that, that first buoy, and Rob told you we slam upstream a little bit And it was choppy, didn't feel that great, it was really choppy right, and so I didn't find You know great feet and we went down and all of a sudden, all of a sudden, we turn to come back. I'm like I feel like a swimmer now Because you had a little current nearby. Yeah, so swim was fine. I mean, i think the first, the first five, five, seven minutes suck, but I think it sucked for everybody involved.

Dr. Marion "Moose" Herring: 34:04

It's not a swimmer's race. You know, to the first buoy and I would love to see CC and see a video of how those guys it really got out fast. Did they run? did they dive? did they dolphin dive? How in the hell did they get that first week? because that's the group you swim with.

Dr. Rob Green: 34:19

Yeah the whole time. What do you think? What do you think you would do different? You don't know. Do you know what you would do different?

Dr. Marion "Moose" Herring: 34:24

Yeah, I don't know how to do that.

Dr. Rob Green: 34:26

It is tricky because it's like that you're caught in between. You're caught in between Whether you're kind of like shuffling to get out there, whether you're starting to swim. Yeah, that's tricky. How about your swim? swim, kind of same thing. It's funny, man, it's.

Dr. Rob Green: 34:39

It makes you realize that like there's nothing more anti climatic than watching a swim as a spectator. Like I remember every once while seeing a swim and when you're in it It's like a washing machine and you feel like you're working hard and you're you're going pretty fast, it's a hard effort. And then As a spectator, you realize that, like a fast swimmer, swim at like three miles an hour is not going very fast at all. So so when everybody started, we had that sort of little bit of a mini mass start And some of the front guys were we're dolphin diving And I was actually walking right behind the front, two swimmers at the same speed. They were dolphin diving.

Dr. Rob Green: 35:13

I was like you know what. I'll just sort of like Mostly so I didn't get kicked in the face right and I was going the same speed. I'm like I'll try to latch onto some feet. I'll try to latch onto some feet. I'll try to stay with them. And then one of the dolphin dives. They didn't come back up and then, before I knew it, they had probably a good, you know, a good distance and by the time I dove in I had missed that front group almost, not almost Right away, and that was the same.

Dr. Rob Green: 35:36

Yeah, and so I would like to see and go back and go Hey, you know what? because, because it's unique, we haven't had that experience. What would I do different? so that way I can put in the memory bank for next time. Yeah, and that first turn buoy, i was was short, what was that? That was probably not even a hundred meters. It was really quick. And so you're and you're making a hard right turn, so I hit that and then I was just, i was on my own for the rest of time, which is, which is you know what ends up to me for is great, because it was a, it was a training day, it was a race day, but I'd rather have myself do all the hard work of swimming and get the highest quality of workout out of it. And it was a chop on the way out And I just settled in. I mean, at that point I was like, oh, this is killer, right, i don't have to worry about anything too crazy and You could see the yellow buoy, and just tried to work on having a good sight line and kind of riding the waves, so that way you kind of look up as a, as you were at the top part of the wave. So it's good, good practice.

Dr. Rob Green: 36:31

Yeah, you make that left turn. This is short. Next turn to the next left turn on your way back and then ride the stream and it's two different swim strokes. I don't you swim different in a chop like that.

Dr. Rob Green: 36:42

So on the way out, for me, higher right, higher cadence, turn that over so you're no longer sort of like gliding, because if you're gliding you're getting pushed back by the water. So if you're going a little, you tip from us as if you're going into a current. Turn it over, right, don't, don't do anything silly and cast yourself out, but don't worry so much of that. Reach, glide, reach, glide. It's more like turn, turn, turn and keep, keep, keep the stroke effort, keep the foot on the gas pedal. If you will make that turn and then on the current back, now I'm glide, now right, and glide now still have a good turnover. It's a big difference. It's a huge difference, right, it's a really big difference. And to learn those two different strokes and if you have the opportunity to mess around in a current and go to a river, that's not too crazy or not dangerous. There are two different ways to swim. So I thought that was a great way to learn, to learn to have that experience again.

Dr. Marion "Moose" Herring: 37:38

Yeah, to practice.

Dr. Rob Green: 37:39

And then another little tip was what did we do? We saw the kayaks out there before the race started and we saw them drifting. So as you make the final left turn, so you're going now across the river towards a swim exit, and that was again 200 meters something like that Twice the distance.

Dr. Rob Green: 38:00

We know it's going left to right as you're going into there, so you're not swimming to the exit, you're swimming with the exit over your right shoulder, so that way you're playing the current. Otherwise you see a lot of people that make that turn and then they get drifted to the right And next thing you know, they're swimming against the current to the swim exit. So it was great. So it was a solo swim minus I had. There was some female swimmer who maybe after the turn on the way back, blew by me like she was in a motorboat, came through yeah, that was always impressive man. So, yeah, so it was relatively uneventful. And then you got out of the water. And if there's one thing you can learn is like never let the swim affect you, cause you got out of the water.

Dr. Rob Green: 38:45

I was like 24 minutes, holy crap. I don't know about you, but I was kind of playing a swim in 22 minutes, maybe a little under, maybe a little over and you come out and you're 24. And if you don't know any better, maybe you start to have some negative self-talk. Well, there's two minutes. There goes my race And reality was that swim was a good. Two to three minutes longer Did you find it was like that, did you think?

Dr. Marion "Moose" Herring: 39:04

it was. Yeah, it was definitely long, but I don't look at swim time coming out.

Dr. Rob Green: 39:08

Yeah.

Dr. Marion "Moose" Herring: 39:09

It's hard to get to swimming. You know exactly right.

Dr. Rob Green: 39:13

I mean, there's the buoys float around And so, yeah, that sort of never matters. But you come out and you're like, ah crap, right, you might have had some time goals. So, yeah, no, take that lesson from Dr Herring. Do not. Do not even look at swim time. Be like I am out of the water. Out of the water, it's time to go. You can look at it later and see how you swim relative to you know, people you know, or kind of the course across the across the race crew.

Dr. Marion "Moose" Herring: 39:39

Race crew. I think another, another important thing to watch people that are super skilled how they get from the water to their bike, do they, do they? if it's a long run out, do they take their wetsuit down to halfway? Do they leave it alone, do they? I mean because it mean because if you, we had probably a half mile run from the water To a long run To the bike And that's all kind of.

Dr. Marion "Moose" Herring: 40:04

I mean, I was chasing the front group there, Some guys were taking the wetsuit off, some guys were stripping it down.

Dr. Rob Green: 40:09

It's just, it's just interesting to watch all the different, so what do you do?

Dr. Marion "Moose" Herring: 40:12

What's your strategy? So I try to get it down in my waist by the time I'm at my bike.

Dr. Rob Green: 40:16

Yeah, How about your? you are a one piece suit. When do you get that? Do you swim with it up? Do you swim with it down? What do you do?

Dr. Marion "Moose" Herring: 40:24

I have tried to get used to swimming with it up. I just I can't just keep, my shoulders can't take it, so I swim with it down And I must. I must look like I'm sure it's funny to watch me in T one, cause I have a really hard time getting those tight sleeves up up and over, cause you gotta get that that suit on tight or tight tightens up your back. So I, so I take the wetsuit down, take it all the way off, i roll the the one piece up, put the sleeves in.

Dr. Rob Green: 40:52

Oh, so you're doing it stationary at T at the bike. Yeah, yeah, so that's. That's one of my things I had to work on today that I still need to work on, as I I do the same thing I take when I get out of the water. I take the wetsuit, i take it off. Well, so, as I'm running out of the water, i'm already flipping the Velcro and then unzipping the back of it, and as soon as I can get that thing down off my arms into my waist, it's down into my waist, and then I take that speed suit and I roll it and it kind of inverted a little bit. So as it unrolls, the sleeves are opening up So you can put your arms in, but it's still hard, dude, that's what I was going to say. And it's a long run. It's like a half, it's a half mile. You got a long time in and getting out of the water. Something you forget too is like after an Olympic swim.

Dr. Rob Green: 41:38

You're like So your heart rate is exhausted Roof, swimming that hard horizontal and then your body goes vertical and so everything becomes a lot harder unzipping, and so I have it half down. But then while I'm running I typically try to get that speed suit on while I'm running. But man, i must have looked like a rookie because I was like put my right arm in and almost running into the right fence. And then I tried to put my left arm in. I was running into the left fence.

Dr. Marion "Moose" Herring: 42:08

Put your left foot in, shake it all about.

Dr. Rob Green: 42:10

And those speed suits have to be tight because if there's, the more wrinkles you have, you lose the benefit of the. So that was just ugly, and then getting the wetsuit off was fumbling around. So T1 was the first race of the season. Quality, but yeah, that's that's. And I've seen some people kind of stay in the water and just strip off the wetsuit there because it's supposed to be easier in the water. I don't know. Yeah, but you gotta find your way.

Dr. Marion "Moose" Herring: 42:38

Find your way.

Dr. Rob Green: 42:39

Yeah, So that's the swim. Now you're off to the, you're off in transition. how did transition go for you? Did it go okay once you got on the bike?

Dr. Marion "Moose" Herring: 42:48

Yeah, i mean. I mean my transition was a little bit slower because I had to get my wetsuit off, as I always do.

Dr. Rob Green: 42:52

Yeah, but that's what it is, And then onto the bike. what happens on the bike?

Dr. Marion "Moose" Herring: 42:57

So my bike goal was to have a certain mile per hour. So I had we talked about that a little bit On my bike computer. all I had was was mile per hour, average mile per hour and heart rate.

Dr. Rob Green: 43:09

Yeah.

Dr. Marion "Moose" Herring: 43:10

And that was, which is very different type of racing than I'm used to, Yeah, But I was like it's Olympic, I'm gonna try it and see. So, going out the first 10 miles had a bit of a headwind And so I was not hitting that mile per hour, but my heart And a false flat And a false flat And so I was not hitting the mile per hour that I thought I should be able to And my heart rate was going up and it was going through my head. See, I told you, I told you you couldn't ride this mile per hour but stayed in it Cause I felt, I felt good And the whole purpose of today was to ride hard. And I said you know, we'll ride hard to 10,. See if there's a headwind when I come back, see if I'm at make up time.

Dr. Marion "Moose" Herring: 43:50

Yeah, So from 10 to 14, I rode really hard, trying to get my average mile per hour up And I raced well. I thought my bike went really really well And I got my 90 grams of carbs in And it's the first time not first time, but it's the first time in a long time that I've been able to ride sustained power all the way through, Because the backside was so focused on getting my mile per hour up I wouldn't even looking at power.

Dr. Rob Green: 44:17

Yeah.

Dr. Marion "Moose" Herring: 44:18

What nutrition did you use? So I've been using this product called Never Second. It's a new sports nutrition that somebody, somebody turned me on to, and I've been using it for the last six weeks, so I really, really like it.

Dr. Rob Green: 44:30

Yeah.

Dr. Marion "Moose" Herring: 44:31

It's makes it super easy because every serving has 30 grams of carbs And so you can. My goal was 90 grams on the bike, so I noted. That's why I basically know I needed three servings. So there were two scoops in my bottle and one gel. That was a total of 90. And it's a special mixture of fruit toast and maltodextrin which is supposed to be good And I've really, i've really enjoyed it. Easy to take, doesn't take much water. How's it taste? Fine, light, does it have a flavor? I'm using lime, which I love. It's a super light taste.

Dr. Rob Green: 45:13

Yeah, no, so you're putting 60 grams in one bottle 60 grams in one bottle. Wow, yeah, and no, you don't need that concentration of osmolality. The concentration doesn't bother you at all or anything. Not at all. Wow, but I've practiced it. Yeah, yeah.

Dr. Marion "Moose" Herring: 45:28

So 90 grams an hour for me took some getting used to. Yeah, Because I mean our Saturdays at Westpik I've been trying to get to 90 grams. Yeah, Because historically, especially for halves, I'm Mount Nurse by the end.

Dr. Rob Green: 45:45

Yeah, and that's huge. I mean swim, bike run, nutrition, four disciplines, right, yeah, so you and you did by. You did you went by speed for the first time. Now how to look back on it. Did you like it? Would you do it again? You know how did it end up for?

Dr. Marion "Moose" Herring: 46:00

you? Well, I think, because it was a flat course yeah speed made sense.

Dr. Rob Green: 46:03

Yeah.

Dr. Marion "Moose" Herring: 46:06

I think for me, if it was a hilly course, if I was chasing mile per hour like I was on my way back, I would have definitely had some huge spikes climbing and would have probably burned some serious matches.

Dr. Rob Green: 46:19

Yeah.

Dr. Marion "Moose" Herring: 46:20

I think it just depends, but I liked it. I liked it.

Dr. Rob Green: 46:23

Yeah, i could see the benefit of like keeping you slippery, right, stay, stay, arrow, stay tight, keep your head in good position. So if you're, if you're in front of mind of speed and you go look at the speedometer and did you see that at all? Did you see any time you'd kind of like shift, that speed would come down? Yes, yeah, and that kind of as well.

Dr. Marion "Moose" Herring: 46:42

And I was doing stuff like, like, like, like, changing my position and changing my cadence and gearing, trying to go as fast as I could. So that's fascinating, because I always race with power and heart rate, yeah, But when you think about it, your goal is to get from point A to point B as fast as you can. Yeah, that's speed, yeah, but, but. But I've always raced with metrics, not speed.

Dr. Rob Green: 47:03

Yeah, and how can you keep those metrics and make them as efficient for you to generate power? Remember a buddy? John Hessian wrote one of the best race reports after Iron Man Got one And man it is. I should find that We should post that up because it is one of the funniest. Like he's like a David Sedaris writer And part of his thing was like laughing at people of like he really focuses on on miles per hour about like just staying slippery, getting the most out of the power that he's putting into it, and laughing at all the people that are just like doing silly things that slow them down when they spend thousands of dollars on aero equipment, yet they're like up and not staying slippery. So, no, i can definitely see the value in certain situations like what you're talking about. But yeah, that's pretty cool.

Dr. Marion "Moose" Herring: 47:55

They're different for me, but I enjoyed it.

Dr. Rob Green: 47:56

Yeah, what you're what I mean. you get to into T2. How do you get off the bike? Do you do a flying dismount? What do you do?

Dr. Marion "Moose" Herring: 48:05

Do not do a do a flying dismount because I didn't practice this week And I have not changed. I use a road shoe, not a trash shoe, and so I did not do a flying mount. I did not do a flying dismount because of Didn't do a Superman off the front.

Dr. Marion "Moose" Herring: 48:22

Off the front. I'm just not willing to win that prize. I'd love to go back and practice that, because I would love to go back and do some more Olympics. There's some fantastic ones coming up And it's just a fun morning. But so I am shoes on on the bike, off the bike. Shoes come off, shoes come off.

Dr. Rob Green: 48:44

How fun. You know what you think about Olympic too. It's like you're done at 10 in the morning, right, isn't that crazy? Right Done at 10 in the morning. You're back home And it's still close to wake up time for everybody, so that's pretty cool. Any hindsight anything you change, anything you do different, anything you learn from it.

Dr. Marion "Moose" Herring: 49:03

I don't think so. I mean I went almost exactly according to plan. Yeah, i'm glad I didn't let my mind get away from me as I was going out in the headwind, the thinking C. I told you I couldn't ride this this mile per hour.

Dr. Rob Green: 49:19

Yeah.

Dr. Marion "Moose" Herring: 49:20

Cause mind's everything right.

Dr. Rob Green: 49:22

Yeah.

Dr. Marion "Moose" Herring: 49:23

If you, if you get in your your head you're not having a day. And on the bike, on the run, even on the swim, shit happens, yeah, and you got to. It's how you react to those multiple, multiple events are in the day that determines the outcome. Totally So totally.

Dr. Rob Green: 49:40

You know I have a kind of similar experience, but mine didn't show up until the run. but, um, no, kind of the same thing For me for the Olympic um. again, it was still the same mindset of of like what I was going to do on the run sit at close to lactic threshold heart rate, really go by, feel, keep the, keep the pressure on the pedals, um, and you know, let's see what power happens around that lactic threshold heart rate. Um, i was sort of expecting um, probably anywhere from like 285 plus or minus, maybe 10 Watts. Um, my threshold's about 300, maybe a little bit over, but I kind of see race. I was kind of expecting that's about where it was, but it was more of a by product. It wasn't something I was looking at. I was just going to go by um, by feel and by heart rate and um came out of the water after fumbling and getting a speed suit and everything up and and got on the bike and hopped on and and started to ride. It was a beautiful day, man, it was cool. It was um, we had a little bit of a head one on the way out, but but reality was it wasn't bad, considering what it can be there And it's a flat, um, you know a false flat on the way out and then pretty speedy on the way back And, um, i had to get my my, my, my wits about me in the first, like five minutes or so after a swim like that, and get off. It's something I think I would.

Dr. Rob Green: 51:01

I learned from this is I'd like to maybe do some harder swims, come out and immediately get on a hard bike. I don't do enough of that Train. in fact, i do none of that training. um, it's just so foreign. I'd like my body to get used to it. Um, but I settled in and and pretty early into it things. just, you ever have those those times and it's a part of sea race And even if you have that, sometimes it's not there. It was just a little bit harder than you wanted it to feel like you know what the pressure is on the pedals. you know it should feel like you could feel that lactic acid building up. I could feel that lactic acid building up my legs a little bit denser than it normally does. I was like huh, how about that? You?

Dr. Marion "Moose" Herring: 51:36

think that was a headwind.

Dr. Rob Green: 51:38

No, i mean maybe a little bit Um so. So maybe a little bit headwind and then a false flat going up So and I think it's also getting out of the water and getting on the bike and kind of working on that part, um, so that's what I initially really sort of thought going out, and then your heart rate came up and then it settled like right at threshold And I was like okay, this is good And um and and was this sort of bad on that? a little bit was waiting for to come back around, but around 10 minutes into it It just sort of wasn't coming back around. And then I had all the display um on my head, unit Um, and I was just I wasn't even chasing anything, it was just more sort of there. It was a learning day for me.

Dr. Marion "Moose" Herring: 52:18

But so what's on your display?

Dr. Rob Green: 52:21

I think I have time. Let me think about this time, at the top Heart rates, the bigger box below it. You know, i can make it a little bit bigger. I just wanted to see the heart rate right in front of my face And then I had speed and distance and then I think I had um, uh, i think I had my power underneath there, so power was low. I wasn't sort of looking at it for this race and I'll change them around depending on the race Um and just was having a hard time kind of pushing the watts at what I thought it should be.

Dr. Rob Green: 52:52

Now, i've had this happen before and something I've learned and it works for me. I don't know, maybe if anybody's tried it, or maybe it's something to try on those days where it's a little bit harder, especially on a um, a flatter um course is, i'll go into this almost punchy sort of style riding, not punchy, where you're burning a bunch of matches, going above threshold, but um, i go into it and actually without even realizing it, i think I was almost gravitating what you were doing. So I was looking at miles an hour. Right, get up to speed When I got to the hill, stay on threshold on the way up a hill, crest the hill, gain some momentum, coast, be tight, be arrow, and just let that flush out And then settle in and let it be a little bit lower power And then, once that flushes out, punch into what I think is, um, a pretty decent power and as soon as that time that starts to feel a little bit better than I'll sort of like buffer that out of it. It's a little way to, on a flat course especially, sort of get through the course as quickly as I can and be as efficient with what I have available. Um. so yeah, on the way out we had that false flat, we had that headwind, but even with that, that sort of doesn't matter, because it should all sort of feel the same. You're just going a little bit slower. That's why I look at speed. I wouldn't necessarily look at speed, but but again, i circled back around and and really sort of was by default Um, and it just was. It was what it was And I I don't know if it's just um, this is one of those days I think it might just be a little bit of run fatigue.

Dr. Rob Green: 54:23

Not making excuses, it's just a matter of like okay, what is happening and do I need to make any sort of correction from it. It's what I got on the day we're racing, so it is what I got and it is what I'm going to give, and it is. You want to know how I rode that day? It's my time is on my time. I hate that when people look at um the other day and they go well, normally I would have done this and I would have done that and go. That's not what your time says. Nope, so um, but um, but it was a little bit of damage control, so.

Dr. Rob Green: 54:51

So I got out to the turnaround, um, and I was like okay, you know, 12 or so miles in, and then came back, and it was just, it was not bad, and my heart rate was staying right at threshold. Now, what I did, though, was because that punchiness, it would go a beat or two above threshold and then come back down under threshold. The one thing I did see that was really um, nice was when I, when I took the gas off the pedal, my heart rate came, like, came down down Immediately, so it wasn't staying high, so it was just a. It was a strategy that I've with racing, for, you know, as long as we have. It's something that I've learned to just sort of you've done it wrong, i've done it wrong enough times to learn to do it Right. I think I fumbled into it one time. I was like, oh, that actually works out pretty well And my background's more into a kind of a cycling And I think maybe that's what I've done in like group rides before, and so it translates into what, instead of like my norm power, I think ended up about 20 Watts, 30 Watts lower than what I was kind of hoping to see, um, but I think it equated to a better miles per hour because because of it, um and um, and that was really helpful.

Dr. Rob Green: 55:57

Um, something that we were talking about earlier. It's good to race is cause, you know, crap happens, sort of cat, somehow. I've got a, I've got a Scott plasma and there is a really I love their, their hydration built into the frame. It was empty And I can sometimes happen is the little lid will pop open and it sort of drips everywhere. But but usually I feel that on my legs And usually I go in my P and myself. We go Oh no, my water bottles leaking But um, uh, into that ride.

Dr. Rob Green: 56:25

I had no nutrition for the ride. It's Olympic, so there's no um, um, there's no bottle pickup or anything like that. But and you said something earlier in this podcast about like nutrition is not as big of a deal in Olympic Um, it's practice for the half And that's a great example. It was. It was more of a discomfort than it was a necessity. So I had some. I had, uh, i used pH gels. I had those in transition that I wish I would have had on me but I had fueled well, going into it, used, you can, beforehand. I use my infinite, i use infinite nutrition. I do it for kind of the same reasons that you're doing yours, which is to get my, my grams up. But I love to be able to customize it and make sure that the osmolality stays low Um and I can keep the flavor really pretty low and I can. I put 500, um milligrams of sodium so I can control that part Um. so I had that before the swim started, so I had more than enough.

Dr. Rob Green: 57:19

Now, when I got to, you know, t two, i definitely needed to get that goo in And I like sucked down, probably like about five Gatorades um to get to, to re boost it. But it didn't affect my race. It was just a little bit of a of um, a discomfort riding um, as far as, like, it'd be nice to kind of like clear out this cotton mouth sort of thing, but, um, but that was my ride. It just was, um, it wasn't strong, and the one thing that was in my head, too, was like, well, crap, i wonder how the run's going to feel Right, is this just going to be one of those workman's days where it's just um, it's a little extra effort to go slower, um, and, and I think, like you experienced, and I think all of us experienced like you, you got one or two pathways. You can have negative self-talk with it, or you can have a rational conversation with yourself and have positive self-talk with it and go, oh you know what? Well, if the bike's down a little bit, well, maybe my run legs are around. I just ran three days ago and actually ran really well, yeah, so, yeah, so you know, maybe it'll be there. Who knows, who cares.

Dr. Rob Green: 58:16

It's a fun day to be out here. I'm smiling, and this is a little bit um, a little bit challenging. But stay low, stay quick. Um, i focused on being slippery, without looking at miles per hour, but, but that ride back was was very fast And that was actually helpful because now we got that, the opposite of the false flat, we got a little bit of a tailwind, um, and you make the most of it, and um, you know.

Dr. Rob Green: 58:40

So still at the end of the day, it's just, it's just still at the end of the day, it ended up with a pretty respectable sort of bike split. I just wish, um, um, i would have liked to have pushed a little bit harder, but it's what I got on the day. So it's um, it was a great day and um, into T2 and I always kind of I I flying this mount, this is nice, just to kind of pop off and run And, and those first couple of steps are always sort of um, eye opening about how the legs feel, especially when I'm in, but, um, and actually felt good coming off the bike. So it was, it was good, it was fun And, um, you know I was out there, i was, i was apparently the back of the front, the point. So it was, um, very much a solo ride out there, just like the swim, and um, and I wouldn't have it any other way. Man, it was just a good, solid, uh, solid race day.

Dr. Marion "Moose" Herring: 59:29

Make one more point about the bike. Um, those long straightaways. You can see people from a long way.

Dr. Rob Green: 59:36

Yeah.

Dr. Marion "Moose" Herring: 59:37

As you're reeling them in. And so, from coming back from like 10 to probably 16, i was reeling these two guys in and realized the guy in the back never came around to pull, and so he sat on this guy's wheel for, i swear, the whole time and he was right on his wheel like on it, on it, on it, on it, and the guy didn't realize he was there. Because as I finally came around them at 16, i was like dude, you got to back, you got to back off.

Dr. Rob Green: 1:00:07

Yeah, you've been drafting for you should have squirted him with your water bottle, Well wouldn't?

Dr. Marion "Moose" Herring: 1:00:11

that have been hilarious. Well, i said I said something. I probably shouldn't say anything, but, dude, you should. And the guy in the front, he goes holy crap, i didn't even realize he was back there. So then this guy I should say his name, but, um, as we, we rode and I had gotten into teaching a little in front of those guys, but then we, we that the guy who was leading that guy on the bike, he and I were running together some, yeah. And he came by and said, dude, thanks for saying I had no idea that guy was back there. He'd been back there forever and ever.

Dr. Rob Green: 1:00:42

And then that same guy. Well, you wouldn't think somebody would be back there. They shouldn't be back there. You shouldn't even be alert that somebody's back there.

Dr. Marion "Moose" Herring: 1:00:48

That same guy comes bounding by us in the run And I, I wanted to. I wanted to find him after the race, Yeah, To say something. And I was walking down the alleyway where everybody was, and then the guy he drafted off of. I said I got to find that guy And he goes. Why, if he needs that to make himself self-suffield, feel good, that's okay with me, I'm here for me, Yeah. So I took my tail and I walked away saying you're right.

Dr. Rob Green: 1:01:13

Yeah, that's awesome. What a great mindset Be like. You know what, dude? you're only cheating yourself, right, but don't draft.

Dr. Marion "Moose" Herring: 1:01:19

I mean, it's not safe for one? Yeah, and you're not. You're not supposed to draft. Yeah, and you're cheating.

Dr. Rob Green: 1:01:25

Yeah, and especially, of course, like that where it's wide open, it's easy to, it's easy to position yourself. It's not like I've been involved with races before where you got four or five guys and they're pushing it and you come up to a hill and then you go down a hill and it's sort of like the train goes back and forth And as a spectator you may see a bike crew for like five seconds and you think, oh, they're riding tight, we're like, but you don't see this moving dynamic. So I'm a little sensitive to when I hear you know people talking about drafting, when they don't see the race on full. But when you got a wide open thing and you see somebody just sitting on a wheel for a long time, dude, why are you even racing? Why are you out here, like, why, how do you?

Dr. Rob Green: 1:02:06

I don't know how you, i don't know how you live with yourself as maybe dramatic, but I don't know how you can look at and and look back on this day with any sort of pride. Oh, you should have squirted him with a water bottle. Man, how funny would that be? Just like, imagine riding to the left of them, just don't even say anything to them, just squirt them in the face. They're like oh, i would you know what, if you weren't so close, i wouldn't have hit you. I wouldn't have hit you, yeah, that would be great.

Dr. Marion "Moose" Herring: 1:02:30

Don't, don't draft.

Dr. Rob Green: 1:02:32

Yeah, yeah, man Don't do it All right, so we're off the bike. This is our Olympic breakdown Now. Now we're on the run. What are you doing on the run? It's a run for the.

Dr. Marion "Moose" Herring: 1:02:41

Olympics Challenging because you've swum. You've, you've, you have had a really hard swim. You've ridden hard, you've, you've, you've chased this mile per hour And my plan going in by doing all these one K repeats off the bike. My guy had said you should be able to run seven minute miles And I was like sure, whatever. And so off the bike. Old guy was a little bit stiff and you come off the bike and it's a little false flat, you know, you know going up.

Dr. Rob Green: 1:03:12

Yeah.

Dr. Marion "Moose" Herring: 1:03:14

And my first mile was like 720. I was like, see, i told you I can't run seven minutes off the bike And so, but stayed in it And I think that caffeinated, caffeinated, you know gel kicked in. Yeah, sorry, you know, you know, feeling better and better, but it's a. It's a first 10 K have ever done where every mile got faster And I felt better and better and better, and, and my second five K was almost 90. Well, that's not true, probably 50 seconds faster than my first five K.

Dr. Rob Green: 1:03:51

Your the five K was 50, five zero seconds faster.

Dr. Marion "Moose" Herring: 1:03:55

That's amazing, went 733, 719, 706, and then 703, 659, 645. Wow.

Dr. Rob Green: 1:04:06

Dude. that's like does that feel as great as it sounds? Like? it was fantastic, oh my gosh.

Dr. Marion "Moose" Herring: 1:04:12

And so it ended up being like a 702 pace Yeah.

Dr. Rob Green: 1:04:15

Right Yeah.

Dr. Marion "Moose" Herring: 1:04:16

But he put that in my head and I may have been the same thing on the bike. I was like, oh, i'm coming down, i'm chasing this now. Yeah, sometimes it takes a coach to push it ever.

Dr. Rob Green: 1:04:26

But, yeah, awesome Dude that's, that's that's so cool. And then at first mile is it's a little bit more than a false flat. I mean that's a pretty good, that's a pretty good rise. I mean it's a relatively flat course, not a hilly course, but like that 720. If you look at that, that normalized graded pace at NGP, i bet you, i bet you'd be surprised what that is. Okay, um, but yeah, yeah. But in your head you're like, yeah, see, i told you.

Dr. Marion "Moose" Herring: 1:04:50

Right, and the fascinating thing was at mile three a guy in my age group ran by me And I thought I was at the relatively front part of the race And I was like he's moving, moving, moving, moving pretty quick. Um, he ran by me And so I, so from mile three to mile four I stayed kind of right in his shadow, yeah, and then he got away from me And then I stopped thinking about where he was. And then at mile five he came by me again. I was like Sir, two of you. I was like, well, hang on, he goes. I had to get in the woods and poop, so he came by me again, and then we stayed relatively close, but I was all in chasing.

Dr. Marion "Moose" Herring: 1:05:39

I never caught him, that's hilarious, And now he's lighter so now he's even faster, he's even faster.

Dr. Rob Green: 1:05:46

Oh, that's hilarious, super fun. I know I'm exhausted, but I swear I just saw you a minute ago, didn't you just?

Dr. Marion "Moose" Herring: 1:05:51

pass me, He just laughed. He said always happens, mile four.

Dr. Rob Green: 1:05:55

That's hilarious, oh my gosh. Yeah, so dude, what a killer. Run, great run, descending all the way.

Dr. Marion "Moose" Herring: 1:06:02

And I think it speaks to the fitness I've gained. and it speaks to somebody saying you've got more in. You suck it up, yeah.

Dr. Rob Green: 1:06:11

Sometimes the great thing about having a coach like that is they give you that extra nudge and that voice is in your head. Because in your head when you saw 720, you probably maybe would have even psychologically stayed at 720, been like that's where I am, instead of going. You know what? Well, somebody believes in that. I got more who's with it. Let me trust And it's why it's great to have a good relationship with your coach too, because there's a big trust factor and go, you know what. What did you say? a couple of podcasts with Jesus take the wheel. Right, exactly. So Jesus took the wheel and apparently it was a lot faster than you realize. Dude, that's awesome. Would you do nutrition on the run?

Dr. Marion "Moose" Herring: 1:06:50

Nothing, nothing. Yeah, i did water, a couple stops.

Dr. Rob Green: 1:06:53

Yeah, but that You got 90 grams and some caffeine, you don't need anything more, right?

Dr. Marion "Moose" Herring: 1:06:58

Yeah, i need nothing And I'd done my normal 70.3 breakfast just to practice 70.3, and I'd really loaded up the hour on the bike, not because I needed it. I think that nutrition on the bike was all I needed for the run and I was money.

Dr. Rob Green: 1:07:14

That's awesome, Great plan man. No, that's sad And we pleased with the day overall.

Dr. Marion "Moose" Herring: 1:07:18

Yeah, so fun. And I went in thinking the goals I had written out from the guy who's been writing my plan were a little bit lofty.

Dr. Rob Green: 1:07:29

Yeah, good.

Dr. Marion "Moose" Herring: 1:07:30

Stretch goals, man Right, but I'd taken two days off and I was all in, yeah, and when I came across the finish line I was all out.

Dr. Rob Green: 1:07:39

That's perfect. That's perfect. You need to be in the fetal position. Moose and I have raced all over the world and Moose's preferred position is in the fetal position, with a little bit of the shakes Curl up on the side And I felt like I'd gotten anything out of myself.

Dr. Rob Green: 1:07:54

So remember Libby's Moose's wife. Remember when she saw you at one time and you were like you were not doing well And she was genuinely worried about it, i was like, ah, I've seen him like that before, it'll be fine, it'll be fine, it'll be fine. It doesn't look good, but he'll live, it'll be fine. Yeah, he'll live Well. Congrats, man. That's a killer day. Yeah, that's a killer day.

Dr. Marion "Moose" Herring: 1:08:12

How about your run?

Dr. Rob Green: 1:08:15

Yeah, so run went pretty well. Coming off the bike, like I said, i didn't know what to expect, just running by feel came in and hopped off the bike and felt fine and was eager to get the calories that were in T2. So I grabbed, i used pH gels. They're 30 grams each So I had right out of transition I stopped because I was like I just need fluids. There's just fluids in my body. So I took maybe four or five of the little Dixie cup Gatorades And I took the pH gel, which is 30 grams, and just got off and just got on the way and felt fine. That's the nice thing about Olympic You didn't have any nutrition after the bike And I didn't need any of the bike because then I took mine on the run. It sort of kicked in. And then, yeah, that first mile was just kind of like assessing the situation.

Dr. Rob Green: 1:09:10

I had been doing some pacing work on the run So I kind of knew where I wanted to be, but I kind of also didn't think maybe I would. I was kind of thread the needle on whether my run legs would sort of still be around. So I just settled in and watched my heart rate and kind of got right on that threshold. That was again my mark. It was going to help me navigate through a sea race And I was like I said I was caught in no man's land. There wasn't anybody really around. There were the four or five guys that were up front. They were far enough up front where I didn't see them. There was one guy who we were riding towards the back five miles. We had kind of linked up a little bit And he went running by me And then so I just settled in. I had nothing really sort of other than just it was the race that in front of me and not chasing anything, and so that first mile went by, wasn't bad. I could feel the energy kind of coming back around And I was happy with that. And then just thought, hey, first five K, settle in right, run the first five K with respect to the last five K. So meaning that like I want to feel uncomfortable, i don't want it to feel unbearable, i want it to feel unbearable in the last two miles. So this might be maybe not the greatest thing to say, but I will say I can't remember who had put it this way. And they said run like if somebody had a gun to your head. You could run a little bit faster. That's how hard you run an Olympic to where it's like it's going to feel really hard. But if somebody told you you got no choice, you'd have one gear more. So I try to stay in that gear just below. And, yeah, just sort of settled in and kind of like you just started to just descend into it, maybe a little bit. I didn't descend as much. Just, i think after that first mile getting up that hill and then I was I was pleased with how my legs felt after being a little bit dead on the bike. They felt fine on the run.

Dr. Rob Green: 1:11:07

And then we go about three miles out. You hit a turnaround. I saw a sorry buddy. Justin was in the lead, which was great to see. He was coming back and then made a left in front of me. Oh well, he's in the lead. At the time He was the lead. Oh no, that's right. That other guy Yeah, sorry about that.

Dr. Rob Green: 1:11:26

There was a guy who actually won it, who is, who is so fast that I think it didn't look like he was part of the frame. He's yeah, he was. He's like a 150 something And it's out. Yeah, man. So but seeing Justin run by was cool to see and a little bit of mojo, and and then got to the turnaround and I saw some of the other guys running back. I was like, oh, they're pretty far out in front. I just kind of settled in, not a big deal.

Dr. Rob Green: 1:11:53

And then you, you get through the first 5k and then you, you run through the woods a bit, so you're zigzagging through the woods. It's kind of nice, it's shaded, it's like a little bit of a corner of the woods And you get that really long view of everybody out in front of you. And I saw a runner out in front of me. I was like, oh, it's closer than what I thought they would be. Well, let's see if I can sort of head that way and track them down hunting rabbits and and it was just so far away. I was like, yeah, probably not, not a big deal. And then we made the turn and it got a little bit closer.

Dr. Rob Green: 1:12:32

And then next thing, you know there's two miles to go and you're like, let's go, all right, you know, i honestly didn't think I'd be able to get there, but it was worth a go. And you just, you just push, and as soon as it feels hard, you just make it harder. And and that was kind of fun, it just gave me something to focus on. And there were certainly times in there where the self talking your head is like, ah, i don't think I'll get there, and be like, well, screw that, like, don't give up, just keep going, do what you can, focus on what you can do. And it was funny because it was almost linked up at the exact same time as there is maybe a quarter mile out, you're, you're back on the road and then you, you go down and you make a right into the finish line. And we linked up shoulder to shoulder, probably in the final finish or shoot. And I was like I'll be damned, i really didn't think that was going to happen, and just had a sprint finish to the to the end and finish one place up by just a fraction of a second.

Dr. Rob Green: 1:13:32

And on all was just a really good run I had. I had my other goo 30 gram pH gel at mile three. So that way my calories I was able to. You know, it's a nice thing with with shorter stuff you can make up for any sort of calorie errors, and so that that never became a problem on the day, so it. It capped off well, so the swim was solid and the the bike was a little bit harder than I anticipated And the run finished strong, and so it was a. It was a really solid day, so I was had exactly what I wanted out of it, which was a great workout. You know, push my boundaries a little bit was a good boost. I'm going to recover for a couple of days and then and then dial it in for the last little bit of training, going into 70.3.

Dr. Marion "Moose" Herring: 1:14:21

But in one of the statements we made before, it's great seeing locals out there. Man, i mean Justin Moir, your super talented guy, he goes all in.

Dr. Rob Green: 1:14:34

Yeah, he didn't get lost this time, you didn't get lost.

Dr. Marion "Moose" Herring: 1:14:37

He works really hard but it's fantastic seeing his success Man. he's incredibly talented. Alden is a great, fantastic guy.

Dr. Rob Green: 1:14:46

All guys we were in Cunoway but just it's great seeing the local talent just go all in dude, and you know what, seeing great people do great things And then after the race man, the camaraderie and like the hugs and like Hey, what happened, and sharing the war stories and things that were kind of funny and the things that were challenging, i mean it just makes us so much better.

Dr. Rob Green: 1:15:05

I mean it's just I leave today after racing locally not only with this bump in fitness and what we like to do and it's our, it's our areas of passion, but just being around great people, man, i'm happy, i'm a better person and it's just such a great psychological boost, i think, to be around that. So, yeah, so that's our Olympic, that's our Olympic breakdown. I don't know if that you know. That lets you know kind of how we approach it, what we go in, thinking we're going to do, and then you know what happens, is it unfolds in real time, and the adaptations that we make during it, and then the reflection afterwards how did you feel Like? what do you think now? Are you happy with the day? Where do you think it leads you?

Dr. Marion "Moose" Herring: 1:15:47

Yeah, but I think I went into a little bit different than you did. I want to go into race. I mean, this was not a practitioner, i wanted to race. I had like a race. well, it's the first time in a long, long time I've hit those mile splits on the run. Yeah, I had to feel good. So I was thinking my fitness is good and I had a blast and I love Olympics and I got to find more of Greg Hawkins. you know Greg Hawkins, Olympics in July, Kinetic multi-sports man, check them out, yeah.

Dr. Rob Green: 1:16:24

But so let me ask you this though I'm a racer heart, i totally agree, dude, you put in it's a race, but how'd you feel for Rumpus? Was Rumpus a race? Was Rumpus a like it's a race, but was that sort of like a? to me it was a. It was a dust buster. Right, you're just kind of like chicken off the cobwebs, were you feeling that way? Do you feel like that for every race? but how about like the first race of the year? So?

Dr. Marion "Moose" Herring: 1:16:48

Rumpus was a little bit different from me. I think I swam well, i think I rode not so good and I ran not so good. Yeah, and I'm not sure why. Yeah.

Dr. Rob Green: 1:16:56

Maybe it was the first race of the year, so it was. It was a race, but it was a. It was a. It was a good, solid training day and you raced it but but it wasn't sort of to the to the zone where you are now. But that race led to the next race.

Dr. Marion "Moose" Herring: 1:17:11

I think it speaks to mindset, because I went into Rumpus thinking we were getting ready for Blue Ridge as a practice day. I'm just going to, i'm just going to go in and see, i'm going to practice all this stuff. this is the first race of the year. I went into day thinking I can learn how to race again.

Dr. Rob Green: 1:17:25

Yeah, So so you nailed it. Different mindset, totally different mindset, but but both had their value in it, right? Both have value.

Dr. Marion "Moose" Herring: 1:17:33

Yes.

Dr. Rob Green: 1:17:33

Both have their values, So, and both have their pain. Yes, dude, No matter what man, if you do it right, it's going to hurt. It's going to hurt, but it but it's. It's not because we're masochists, it's because that that brings you to another level, right? You know, exploring your boundaries and doing something that's hard, that really challenges you, makes you a better person. So, like, embrace it right, Go in and and understand that. You remember learning from a coach. A long time ago you signed up for this, right, You paid for it You paid for it.

Dr. Marion "Moose" Herring: 1:18:05

Yep, You know Olympic races is is is still in those races. When you're standing on the on the beach and they're playing that star spangled banner and you're five minutes, you're getting ready to go, you'd be nervous. Yeah, Dude, That this next two hours and 16 minutes for me, two hours for you, is going to sting.

Dr. Rob Green: 1:18:26

Yeah, i'll tell you what. the moment I stopped getting nervous. I'm not doing the same, we're done. Yeah, man, it's not fun. I mean at that adrenaline to not know you're you're going to challenge. If you're not nervous, you're not challenging yourself and not challenging your bound. We've done this enough times to to know what's in front of us. That's and that gives you even deeper respect. That's why you're nervous. But I'll tell you what if I, if I lose the nerves of it, that's what I love that man. So embrace it.

Dr. Rob Green: 1:18:49

And I've, i've had athletes I've coached to where those nerves have kept them from doing things Um, and and I get it, man, i get it. but that's the beauty in doing this Put yourself outside your comfort zone, do it I. Every athlete I've ever had that was like that, that just ended up doing it, was so grateful they did it and they grew as a person. So like, put yourself outside your comfort zone, know that what you're feeling, everybody's feeling, even the ones that have done it forever or somebody who's doing it for the first time. So it's um, it's a powerful thing.

Dr. Marion "Moose" Herring: 1:19:22

Lessons from the knuckleheads, all right.

Dr. Rob Green: 1:19:25

So so for lessons for knuckleheads, I got an idea. Tell me what you think about this. Um, this came to me today when we were racing. Lessons from knuckleheads Always expect the car or the other riders to do the wrong thing. Don't expect them to do the right thing, Meaning that, like I was crossing an intersection and police were there and you would think that that car would not make that left because there's, because there's police there and there's riders everywhere, That car made that left right. But you could sort of see the scenario that they just were confused. They didn't do it maliciously, but they were confused.

Dr. Rob Green: 1:20:08

I was trained at an early age when I learned to drive a car. My dad always taught me expect every car to not do the right thing And it was like all right, dad, all right, all right, But it was drilled into me so much that it saved me from car accidents, It saved me from your bike accidents And it saved me today. So, lessons from Nuckleheads don't assume everybody's gonna do what you expect. In fact, assume that they're gonna do the wrong thing. That doesn't mean stop and get off your bike, but be very high alert Instead of going yep, I'm racing, I'm here, I'm staying arrow because that car is not gonna pull into me. How many times have we seen during races and professional athletes and those cars in big races, where they're policed really well, get injured? So yeah, that came to me today where I was like I think that's a really valuable lesson. It's a great life, big props, dad. I know they'll listen to this every once in a while. That was ingrained into it and it saved me today.

Dr. Marion "Moose" Herring: 1:21:05

Right, I think that's great.

Dr. Rob Green: 1:21:06

How about you? do you ever look at cars like that, Do you ever?

Dr. Marion "Moose" Herring: 1:21:10

Every time, because in my business.

Dr. Marion "Moose" Herring: 1:21:11

I see bikes that have gotten smashed. I see bikes that get tangled up And I expect folks not to be paying attention. And that's why I don't ride on the road anymore, because I expect folks to be texting or yelling at their kids or shoving a cheeseburger in their face, not paying attention And it's confusing for them if it's a road they've driven 10,000 times. well, now there's all these cyclists out there and the police aren't following the stoplights. they're gonna make a bad decision And folks have been killed this year and they've been hurt bad. I always expect folks to be the wrong thing.

Dr. Rob Green: 1:21:48

Not only cars like these two loop courses that were on other riders right, You stay right and you pass left, and there's been plenty of times where the person passing left for some reason has gone all the way to the left, to the double lane road and has gotten in the way And as you're looping around you might be going, there might be more than a 10 mile an hour differential and that rider got in the way and riders have collided. So just kind of be apprehensive a little bit or pay attention to what could possibly go wrong and be prepared for it, because I think it'll probably save a lot of people from some serious accidents. You might do it a thousand times. it only matters that that one didn't happen the right way and you were able to protect yourself because you were anticipating that person not doing the right thing, whether it's another rider, whether it's another car. you see these horrible accidents And one of our lessons from Knucklehead is to wear a helmet. still wear a helmet, but go in with an attitude of like, not like. hey, i'm here, everybody's sort of working around me. I'm here and I'm in a place where people normally aren't and I need to be at high alert for my safety and for their safety as well. Yup, i agree. Lessons from Knuckleheads ["Nuckleheads"]. All right, that's our show.

Dr. Rob Green: 1:23:15

It's a little bit longer, but I thought it was pretty cool to like give you a dive into what it's like in preparation. What? why are you doing the race? Remember your why. How did you plan out What is happening in that race? Is it high level importance? Is it lower level importance? If you're gonna try something new, try it on the lower level important stuff. Go in with a plan, don't just hope. have preparation, try to execute on a plan, adapt when that plan doesn't go correctly And then afterwards reflect on it.

Dr. Rob Green: 1:23:49

right, what did you learn from it? I mean, you brought Moose, you brought up something about like the swim start, that's. we've been doing this a long time and there's still a learning moment. Be like, hey, i haven't been putting that environment, so I hope it wasn't too long and I hope it wasn't too much about like what we did today. But the goal of it was just to see how we approach it. You know how do you approach it. What did maybe we bring up that you might want to adopt for your next one? And it's just a lot of fun man. Do you have fun today? It's a great day.

Dr. Rob Green: 1:24:15

Dude Great day, Olympic triathlon, cool podcast talking to great triathletes. I mean, we are lucky dudes.

Dr. Marion "Moose" Herring: 1:24:23

It makes you want to do another.

Dr. Rob Green: 1:24:25

It does Mile four. I think I might have been like, nah, i'm good for a little bit for the run, but now I'm ready to go. But yeah, in Kinetic Multisports please you're kineticmultisportscom Take a look if you're on the East Coast Incredible racing. And then hubtrainingcentercom and hubtraining on Instagram and Facebook. We've had some emails come through. We may kind of address some of those here and some episodes to come, but we'd love to hear from you. If you have anything you'd like to hear from us, please let us know. We love doing this stuff. We love sharing our experience. We love hearing your experiences. We're in this together and together we're just having a fun hub life. Yep, find us like us, share us, giddy up And when you come to a fork in the road, as Dr Herring always says, go racing uphill.